Colin Casey (00:00:00):
Hi, welcome to Sober Banter.
Colin Casey (00:00:01):
I am Colin.
Rachel Casey (00:00:02):
I'm Rachel.
Rachel Casey (00:00:03):
And we have our first guest, Miss Julie Fonts.
Julie Fontes (00:00:07):
Yes, I have an icebreaker question.
Julie Fontes (00:00:09):
But no, I thought of one when I was in the shower.
Julie Fontes (00:00:12):
That's really good.
Julie Fontes (00:00:13):
Those are the best.
Julie Fontes (00:00:14):
All right, let's hear it.
Julie Fontes (00:00:15):
Would you rather never be able to laugh for the rest of your life or have to go
Julie Fontes (00:00:22):
back to drinking?
Rachel Casey (00:00:24):
I guess I'm not laughing.
Colin Casey (00:00:25):
I don't want to cry for the rest of my life.
Rachel Casey (00:00:29):
Well, yeah, because I do believe that if I were to drink, I'd just be a suicide.
Rachel Casey (00:00:34):
That was the way I drank.
Rachel Casey (00:00:36):
And so I guess there's no laughter for me.
Rachel Casey (00:00:43):
What is your answer?
Rachel Casey (00:00:45):
I guess the same, Colin, or I don't think I could go back to drinking.
Colin Casey (00:00:48):
Yeah, I wouldn't because...
Colin Casey (00:00:50):
I could always just,
Colin Casey (00:00:51):
yeah,
Colin Casey (00:00:52):
I wouldn't be out loud laughing or chucking,
Colin Casey (00:00:54):
but I'll just kind of be like,
Colin Casey (00:00:55):
oh,
Colin Casey (00:00:55):
that was funny.
Julie Fontes (00:00:56):
Yeah, you get to laugh in your head, right?
Julie Fontes (00:00:57):
I was thinking I would be just like slightly amused for the rest of my life.
Julie Fontes (00:01:02):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:01:03):
I feel like we didn't give a proper introduction.
Rachel Casey (00:01:06):
You just wrote and published a book on your birthday.
Rachel Casey (00:01:09):
It was October 2nd, right?
Rachel Casey (00:01:10):
Yes, correct.
Rachel Casey (00:01:11):
Like a normal person, which.
Rachel Casey (00:01:13):
Yes.
Rachel Casey (00:01:15):
I'm guessing like drinking like a normal person or not drinking like a normal person.
Colin Casey (00:01:20):
Like the title.
Rachel Casey (00:01:21):
I love the cover.
Rachel Casey (00:01:22):
I love cats.
Rachel Casey (00:01:22):
I have two cats.
Rachel Casey (00:01:24):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:01:24):
And usually they come and invade this area when we're recording, but they're not.
Rachel Casey (00:01:28):
I would love it if they did.
Rachel Casey (00:01:29):
Oh no.
Rachel Casey (00:01:31):
They are scratching up these chairs.
Rachel Casey (00:01:32):
We have now pokes and they love it.
Rachel Casey (00:01:35):
So do you still have a cat currently?
Rachel Casey (00:01:38):
Oh yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:01:38):
On the cover.
Julie Fontes (00:01:40):
The artist, the cover designer, I sent her pictures of all my cats for inspiration.
Julie Fontes (00:01:46):
So it's kind of like an amalgamation of all my cats.
Rachel Casey (00:01:50):
I love that.
Rachel Casey (00:01:50):
It looks like a big fluffy fur, like a cuddly cat.
Julie Fontes (00:01:54):
We have a big fluffy calico.
Rachel Casey (00:01:56):
Oh, that's awesome.
Rachel Casey (00:01:57):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:01:58):
I've,
Rachel Casey (00:01:58):
Always grown up with a cat.
Rachel Casey (00:01:59):
Colin, not so much.
Colin Casey (00:02:01):
I adopted these two.
Colin Casey (00:02:02):
And as she said earlier, I have two cats.
Colin Casey (00:02:05):
She didn't say we have two cats.
Colin Casey (00:02:07):
Well,
Rachel Casey (00:02:07):
technically Mia was mine first and we got KitKat,
Rachel Casey (00:02:10):
which we thought was a girl and we found was a boy,
Rachel Casey (00:02:14):
but the two-year-old already learned KitKat.
Rachel Casey (00:02:16):
Our son, Evan, and there was no going back.
Rachel Casey (00:02:19):
so we were just like let's get cat that's a cute name for a cat we got we was drunk
Rachel Casey (00:02:23):
our friend came over and we were like yeah we'll take one and then we wake up we're
Rachel Casey (00:02:26):
like what and my son again two-year-old's already in love like there's no going
Rachel Casey (00:02:32):
back and yeah and i you have a daughter i do she is 23.
Julie Fontes (00:02:39):
I was really young when I had her.
Rachel Casey (00:02:41):
How does she feel about the dynamic of the book coming out and sharing your life?
Julie Fontes (00:02:48):
She's really supportive of it.
Julie Fontes (00:02:50):
She is a character in it, which is like something interesting to grapple with.
Julie Fontes (00:02:57):
having real people as characters in your book, but she's an only child.
Julie Fontes (00:03:01):
So in a way she just loves being the center of attention.
Rachel Casey (00:03:04):
I mean, yeah, it's so weird.
Rachel Casey (00:03:06):
And I've told my story at an AA meeting and my mom was listening.
Rachel Casey (00:03:10):
It is kind of weird because you're talking about,
Rachel Casey (00:03:13):
it's not the equivalent of writing a published book that goes a lot wider audience,
Rachel Casey (00:03:18):
but it's still,
Rachel Casey (00:03:19):
it's from your view.
Rachel Casey (00:03:20):
And even when we talk about memories, there's two different perspectives, you know?
Julie Fontes (00:03:25):
yeah and the perspective of the story i wanted to be very in the moment my
Julie Fontes (00:03:31):
perspective on what happened is completely different now from how i felt then oh
Colin Casey (00:03:37):
absolutely so you're saying when you were writing it it was different now yeah
Julie Fontes (00:03:42):
Yeah, because I'm big on first present tense.
Julie Fontes (00:03:47):
I want it to be a compelling story more than anything.
Julie Fontes (00:03:51):
It's not like, oh, this is how you get sober.
Julie Fontes (00:03:54):
It's more like, this is what happened when I got sober and it was kind of a shit show.
Julie Fontes (00:04:00):
which i think is a little bit more true to life because your problems don't all of
Rachel Casey (00:04:05):
a sudden all get solved no they don't yeah you don't skip off into the sunset no it
Rachel Casey (00:04:12):
doesn't but it's still life but it's weird because it's still better than when it
Rachel Casey (00:04:17):
was drinking so it's like you have this it's like it's not perfect but then you
Rachel Casey (00:04:23):
compare it to
Rachel Casey (00:04:24):
What it used to be like in your instant gratitude.
Rachel Casey (00:04:27):
And it's just, it's better than what it was.
Rachel Casey (00:04:29):
It's weird how that works.
Colin Casey (00:04:33):
One of my questions was, cause I know you said you tried multiple times to get sober.
Colin Casey (00:04:39):
So what were those multiple times like,
Colin Casey (00:04:42):
and how does that differ from where you are right now to where you feel ultimately
Colin Casey (00:04:47):
like you have it down or you kind of had that aha moment and figured out how to
Colin Casey (00:04:52):
stay sober?
Julie Fontes (00:04:55):
Well,
Julie Fontes (00:04:56):
the times in the past when I decided to get sober,
Julie Fontes (00:05:01):
it was always based on some kind of catastrophic event.
Julie Fontes (00:05:07):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:05:07):
And I heard that.
Rachel Casey (00:05:08):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:05:09):
Me too.
Rachel Casey (00:05:10):
And that's what it is.
Julie Fontes (00:05:10):
You weren't stupid.
Rachel Casey (00:05:12):
And we were asked to leave a friend's.
Rachel Casey (00:05:13):
We didn't talk to your friend after I was at the pool and I don't remember it.
Rachel Casey (00:05:17):
I was blacked out.
Rachel Casey (00:05:18):
I said something obviously pretty bad and I still don't remember.
Colin Casey (00:05:22):
There was a little bit of a physical altercation.
Rachel Casey (00:05:25):
There was?
Colin Casey (00:05:26):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:05:26):
Awesome.
Colin Casey (00:05:27):
You were trying to get one of his friends to drink with you and you were like
Colin Casey (00:05:32):
nudging her arm to pick up the shot glass.
Rachel Casey (00:05:36):
Yeah, I don't remember that, but I believe you.
Rachel Casey (00:05:38):
I know that they didn't talk to me for a while.
Rachel Casey (00:05:40):
And those are just moments that it's like, that would be a time.
Rachel Casey (00:05:43):
Okay.
Rachel Casey (00:05:43):
Maybe it's time to, and it would always be moderate.
Rachel Casey (00:05:48):
I don't know that I ever said before quit like forever.
Colin Casey (00:05:52):
Well, when stop, it was like, okay, we got it.
Colin Casey (00:05:54):
We would get a couple days and be like, oh, we stopped for a few days.
Colin Casey (00:05:58):
Let's treat ourselves.
Colin Casey (00:06:00):
And the only way we knew how to treat ourselves was by getting a bottle or a handle of Jameson.
Colin Casey (00:06:05):
We'll just do this for Friday and Saturday.
Colin Casey (00:06:08):
And then come Friday night, it's already all gone.
Colin Casey (00:06:12):
And we're going to door dash another one before they close.
Rachel Casey (00:06:16):
But what kind of events are, is this more like with friends, with work, or all...
Rachel Casey (00:06:21):
Family.
Julie Fontes (00:06:23):
See, here's what was difficult about it is like, I never lost a job.
Julie Fontes (00:06:28):
I never got a DUI.
Julie Fontes (00:06:29):
I like, I never like went so far.
Julie Fontes (00:06:34):
I like, it was never like a rock bottom.
Julie Fontes (00:06:37):
There was one incident where I quit for five years where like a romantic
Julie Fontes (00:06:42):
relationship that like a guy who I was really in love with.
Julie Fontes (00:06:47):
I did something at a bar.
Julie Fontes (00:06:48):
I don't even remember.
Julie Fontes (00:06:49):
I was a blackout.
Julie Fontes (00:06:50):
I like sat on someone's lap or something.
Julie Fontes (00:06:53):
And he wasn't even the guy that I was with.
Julie Fontes (00:06:55):
Wasn't even a good guy anyways.
Julie Fontes (00:06:57):
It's always like, yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:06:59):
He was cheating on me the whole time,
Julie Fontes (00:07:02):
but it destroyed our relationship,
Julie Fontes (00:07:05):
which wasn't even good in the first place.
Julie Fontes (00:07:07):
So I was like, okay, I can't do this anymore because I lost something really important to me.
Julie Fontes (00:07:12):
After five years, I was like, okay, I didn't drink for five years.
Julie Fontes (00:07:15):
I'm obviously fine.
Rachel Casey (00:07:17):
Right.
Rachel Casey (00:07:19):
And when I made it through pregnancy, that was my, oh, I can make it nine months.
Rachel Casey (00:07:24):
Like, obviously I don't have a problem.
Colin Casey (00:07:26):
Well,
Colin Casey (00:07:26):
and I remember there was one time when you were around six,
Colin Casey (00:07:30):
seven months,
Colin Casey (00:07:31):
you were like,
Colin Casey (00:07:32):
you know what?
Colin Casey (00:07:33):
After I have Evan,
Colin Casey (00:07:33):
I think I'm just going to maybe not drink as much as I did or not drink for a while.
Colin Casey (00:07:38):
There was a small time where you actually enjoyed being sober.
Rachel Casey (00:07:41):
I don't remember that either.
Colin Casey (00:07:42):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:07:43):
And I was just kind of like, we'll see how long that lasts.
Colin Casey (00:07:46):
At the same time, I kind of felt like I was missing my drinking buddy for a little bit.
Rachel Casey (00:07:51):
did you feel after the five-year stint that you almost like went harder to make up
Julie Fontes (00:07:56):
for last time or you think it was just kind of even keel um no i slowly got back to
Julie Fontes (00:08:02):
like binging every now and then what i discovered about my drinking is that it
Julie Fontes (00:08:07):
really mattered who i was drinking with and under what circumstances like how hard
Julie Fontes (00:08:12):
i would go um and like there was another incident
Julie Fontes (00:08:19):
where I got a therapist and like she tried to coach me how to moderate my drinking.
Julie Fontes (00:08:25):
And I talked about this was Winnie the Pooh.
Julie Fontes (00:08:27):
Yeah,
Julie Fontes (00:08:27):
I was like,
Rachel Casey (00:08:28):
I wrote that down because I,
Rachel Casey (00:08:30):
well,
Rachel Casey (00:08:30):
not that my therapist,
Rachel Casey (00:08:32):
so I also was in therapy the year before,
Rachel Casey (00:08:35):
but I almost used the therapy.
Rachel Casey (00:08:37):
I would lightly talk about my drinking.
Rachel Casey (00:08:40):
I wasn't being completely honest about how much, and I almost felt like she was co-signing.
Rachel Casey (00:08:44):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:08:45):
Not only that, but
Rachel Casey (00:08:48):
I didn't have a way to deal with life's problems.
Rachel Casey (00:08:51):
And I know there was not a single appointment that immediately after I didn't go
Rachel Casey (00:08:56):
get a drink because talking about emotional stuff,
Rachel Casey (00:08:58):
the only way I knew was to run,
Rachel Casey (00:09:01):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:09:01):
and alcohol made me forget.
Rachel Casey (00:09:02):
Therapy almost made it a little more.
Rachel Casey (00:09:06):
They give you kind of permission to do it.
Rachel Casey (00:09:08):
Well, they say, oh yeah, it's fine.
Rachel Casey (00:09:10):
If you know, that's just normal.
Rachel Casey (00:09:12):
And I wasn't being honest, but it wasn't.
Rachel Casey (00:09:16):
normal drinking even some of the things i said i used it as a cosign like oh well
Rachel Casey (00:09:20):
my therapist says it's fine yeah i'm in therapy now so i'm all better than really i
Rachel Casey (00:09:25):
was just i'd probably go even a little harder and so what do you do for i know
Rachel Casey (00:09:32):
you're now author but did i read that you were in the service industry yeah i still
Julie Fontes (00:09:40):
weigh tables how is that
Julie Fontes (00:09:43):
Um, it's, I'm really conflicted sometimes because I am like my job is to sell alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:09:53):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:09:53):
So like that part of it.
Julie Fontes (00:09:55):
And I like, I'm good at it.
Rachel Casey (00:09:56):
I was too.
Julie Fontes (00:09:58):
It's the hardest part of my job is to like, here's this thing that ruins people's lives.
Rachel Casey (00:10:07):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:10:08):
Have another one and pay $20 for it.
Rachel Casey (00:10:12):
And I mean,
Rachel Casey (00:10:13):
I,
Rachel Casey (00:10:13):
at the end of my waiting tables,
Rachel Casey (00:10:14):
one of the big things I started getting the shakes.
Rachel Casey (00:10:17):
Like I couldn't deliver unless it was a rocks glass by the wine stem.
Rachel Casey (00:10:23):
I would start shaking.
Rachel Casey (00:10:25):
That was even the beginning of pregnancy.
Rachel Casey (00:10:27):
It was like my body didn't want to part with the alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:10:30):
Oh my God.
Rachel Casey (00:10:31):
And again, that wasn't a red flag for me.
Rachel Casey (00:10:33):
I'm like, oh, it's probably just the pregnancy hormones.
Rachel Casey (00:10:36):
Like it's just always a sign.
Julie Fontes (00:10:38):
There's always a pregnancy tremors.
Rachel Casey (00:10:40):
I didn't.
Rachel Casey (00:10:41):
read books because in service industry I'd be too shit-faced to read I kind of lost
Rachel Casey (00:10:49):
I mean I do audiobooks I like to listen to some in the car but I mean physically
Rachel Casey (00:10:54):
reading I kind of had a hard time when I first got sober sitting with your sponsor
Rachel Casey (00:10:58):
reading the big book out loud I didn't realize how much time I'd lost so did you
Rachel Casey (00:11:03):
read too while drinking like reading and
Rachel Casey (00:11:07):
you know, a book at night?
Julie Fontes (00:11:10):
Not as much as I want to.
Julie Fontes (00:11:13):
I'm like a total bibliophile.
Julie Fontes (00:11:15):
I love books.
Julie Fontes (00:11:17):
But there was a long period of time where I just didn't read any books.
Julie Fontes (00:11:21):
But when I quit drinking, I dove so deep into the Quitlet.
Rachel Casey (00:11:25):
I read some of the ones you talked about, like the Annie Grace one.
Julie Fontes (00:11:28):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:11:29):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:11:30):
And I didn't go to AA or anything.
Julie Fontes (00:11:32):
So...
Julie Fontes (00:11:34):
it's kind of where I found guidance, I guess, and I felt less alone.
Julie Fontes (00:11:39):
And, um, but I, I felt like yours.
Julie Fontes (00:11:44):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:11:44):
And it inspired me to write mine.
Julie Fontes (00:11:45):
Cause I felt like there's that whole wrapped up in a tidy little bow thing that happens,
Julie Fontes (00:11:55):
which is not what happens in my book,
Julie Fontes (00:11:58):
but it does show personal growth and like,
Julie Fontes (00:12:01):
yes,
Julie Fontes (00:12:01):
you're like,
Julie Fontes (00:12:03):
Go girl.
Rachel Casey (00:12:05):
I'm kind of at the,
Rachel Casey (00:12:06):
I've only got,
Rachel Casey (00:12:07):
like I said,
Rachel Casey (00:12:07):
to the beginning,
Rachel Casey (00:12:08):
I'm kind of like,
Rachel Casey (00:12:09):
I know that Henry was a character in the beginning.
Rachel Casey (00:12:12):
And so I guess another question is,
Rachel Casey (00:12:15):
did you just take notes or when you wrote the book,
Rachel Casey (00:12:18):
is it more memory based?
Rachel Casey (00:12:19):
Did you log some of the events?
Julie Fontes (00:12:24):
All of the above.
Julie Fontes (00:12:27):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:12:27):
So I, when I stopped drinking, I started journaling and I also hired a writing coach.
Julie Fontes (00:12:37):
It's actually in the book that I hired this writing coach when I'm like really spiraling.
Julie Fontes (00:12:42):
Cause I just feel so lost in life.
Julie Fontes (00:12:45):
Like I let my life get away from me.
Julie Fontes (00:12:48):
I was thinking about going back to grad school or going to finish school because I
Julie Fontes (00:12:53):
never finished my bachelor's degree.
Julie Fontes (00:12:54):
Like going back to grad school, you have to actually graduate first.
Rachel Casey (00:12:58):
I mean, I only had three credits when I got sober.
Rachel Casey (00:13:01):
I didn't even think I could go back to college.
Rachel Casey (00:13:04):
Like I thought I'd get rejected and
Rachel Casey (00:13:06):
I mean,
Rachel Casey (00:13:06):
I'm,
Rachel Casey (00:13:07):
I think now I have like 78 credits and I wish I had my bachelor's,
Rachel Casey (00:13:11):
but I couldn't do school with the state of like waiting tables was my career.
Rachel Casey (00:13:17):
And that was,
Rachel Casey (00:13:18):
I went fine dining and you know,
Rachel Casey (00:13:20):
in fine dining,
Rachel Casey (00:13:21):
you can make more than what I could.
Rachel Casey (00:13:23):
I didn't even know what I wanted to do.
Colin Casey (00:13:25):
I mean, there are career servers in the fine dining industry, making the money you were making.
Rachel Casey (00:13:30):
And I know what it feels like to be like, then you get sober and you're just like,
Rachel Casey (00:13:36):
this isn't what my heart's wanting to do.
Rachel Casey (00:13:39):
I want to do something more.
Rachel Casey (00:13:40):
And I can feel that.
Colin Casey (00:13:42):
I had a question too,
Colin Casey (00:13:44):
because I always like to ask this when we've done a lot of our episodes is just how
Colin Casey (00:13:51):
you got sober or what method worked for you because everybody's different.
Colin Casey (00:13:55):
But did you ever,
Colin Casey (00:13:56):
was there a time in any of the other stints that you had where you tried some sort
Colin Casey (00:14:00):
of group or AA or?
Julie Fontes (00:14:02):
When I was a teenager, I used to go to,
Julie Fontes (00:14:06):
NA because my best friend and I got caught doing drugs and then we got grounded and
Julie Fontes (00:14:14):
then NA was the only place where we were allowed to like go if we were leaving the
Julie Fontes (00:14:18):
house so that's where we would hang out yeah I didn't even like at that point I
Julie Fontes (00:14:24):
didn't really belong there yeah
Julie Fontes (00:14:30):
but it was like i wasn't even there to be there i was there just to hang out with
Julie Fontes (00:14:35):
my best friend you know because like because you couldn't go to the movies together
Rachel Casey (00:14:38):
i couldn't go do anything else yeah and i wanted to be like are you old enough to
Rachel Casey (00:14:42):
drink coffee yeah i started coffee at 11.
Rachel Casey (00:14:45):
okay so i'm like i don't remember when i sometime in high school but i don't
Rachel Casey (00:14:51):
remember when
Julie Fontes (00:14:53):
This last time it wasn't anything really from outside of myself that like,
Julie Fontes (00:15:01):
it was more of a mindset,
Julie Fontes (00:15:03):
like something just clicked where after trying to moderate and just,
Julie Fontes (00:15:10):
you know,
Julie Fontes (00:15:11):
actually being able,
Julie Fontes (00:15:12):
like I had a great summer of drinking.
Julie Fontes (00:15:14):
I.
Julie Fontes (00:15:16):
didn't blackout all summer.
Julie Fontes (00:15:17):
I went to Mexico.
Julie Fontes (00:15:18):
I went to birthday parties.
Julie Fontes (00:15:22):
I didn't blackout.
Julie Fontes (00:15:23):
I always wanted to be a normal drinker.
Julie Fontes (00:15:26):
And then at the end of it, it was like, and then what?
Julie Fontes (00:15:30):
I'm really just tired.
Julie Fontes (00:15:33):
And like it, it actually hurts still.
Julie Fontes (00:15:38):
I don't have to do anything to destroy my life for this to know that this isn't
Julie Fontes (00:15:43):
helping anything.
Julie Fontes (00:15:44):
Like it is making me feel sick.
Julie Fontes (00:15:47):
It's making me feel just kind of like,
Julie Fontes (00:15:50):
like everything is muted,
Julie Fontes (00:15:52):
you know,
Julie Fontes (00:15:52):
like,
Julie Fontes (00:15:53):
yeah,
Julie Fontes (00:15:54):
like all the vibrancy and life.
Rachel Casey (00:15:57):
I feel like that was mine.
Rachel Casey (00:15:59):
Nothing spectacular happened.
Rachel Casey (00:16:02):
It was a day at the zoo.
Rachel Casey (00:16:03):
And I remember having that vivid moment of, I can't live with alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:16:07):
I can't live without it.
Rachel Casey (00:16:08):
Nothing major happened.
Rachel Casey (00:16:09):
It was just the feeling of internal, like, this isn't working anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:16:15):
I feel like those are the spiritual experience moments that I hear with success stories.
Rachel Casey (00:16:22):
I agree with
Rachel Casey (00:16:24):
what i've read in the book and also heard through winnie the pooh which i still
Rachel Casey (00:16:28):
think is so cute i love the humor you added if you're not doing it for you
Rachel Casey (00:16:33):
eventually it's the same as kind of like with codependence and the relationship
Rachel Casey (00:16:38):
because i i 100 am someone who would be codependent and i am that girl that
Rachel Casey (00:16:47):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:16:48):
I never dated any sober guys,
Rachel Casey (00:16:50):
but had they been sober,
Rachel Casey (00:16:52):
that probably would have been the only thing that could have kept me sober.
Rachel Casey (00:16:56):
The wanting to be loved or something.
Rachel Casey (00:17:00):
That's the only thing that could have replaced it.
Rachel Casey (00:17:02):
If you're not doing it for you, eventually.
Rachel Casey (00:17:06):
I feel it's cause it, yeah.
Colin Casey (00:17:08):
The first time you have some sort of roadblock,
Colin Casey (00:17:11):
you're going to turn to the only thing that's ever been there for you.
Rachel Casey (00:17:15):
And I feel like that's the kind of times where, when we talk about, I did quit for a little bit.
Rachel Casey (00:17:22):
I always had it in the back, like, well, it'll be there, you know, in the future.
Rachel Casey (00:17:29):
This was the first time where I really was like, it's a day at a time until it turned to
Rachel Casey (00:17:35):
Yeah, I'm definitely an alcoholic.
Rachel Casey (00:17:37):
Like when I put alcohol in my body, I won't be able to not have a thousand.
Rachel Casey (00:17:44):
I don't want one.
Rachel Casey (00:17:45):
I want like a hundred, you know, and that's just not normal.
Rachel Casey (00:17:50):
That's not how normal people think about it.
Rachel Casey (00:17:52):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:17:52):
Well,
Colin Casey (00:17:53):
I know for me,
Colin Casey (00:17:55):
I've always kind of in the back of my head knew I had a problem and didn't want to
Colin Casey (00:17:59):
address it because there would be times I would be thinking to myself,
Colin Casey (00:18:02):
like,
Colin Casey (00:18:03):
really shouldn't be having this other beer,
Colin Casey (00:18:06):
this another shot because I got work or something going on tomorrow or I already
Colin Casey (00:18:10):
feel like shit.
Colin Casey (00:18:11):
And I was like, I can't keep doing this forever, but I'm not going to stop today.
Colin Casey (00:18:15):
There's going to be a day where I'm not going to drink, but it's not today.
Colin Casey (00:18:19):
But I knew that day would eventually come.
Rachel Casey (00:18:22):
The other thing that you had mentioned too, is that I really liked the light in people's eyes.
Rachel Casey (00:18:29):
And I saw the light,
Rachel Casey (00:18:33):
like people told me my eyes changed color because they used to be a dark brown,
Rachel Casey (00:18:36):
but they're light brown.
Rachel Casey (00:18:37):
When you talked about drinking around other people,
Rachel Casey (00:18:39):
there comes that point where you start to see the light kind of dim.
Rachel Casey (00:18:43):
And I thought that was just fantastic.
Rachel Casey (00:18:45):
The way you describe things in your book, even when you're speaking, you are
Rachel Casey (00:18:52):
You do a great job of the imagery of feeling like you are there.
Rachel Casey (00:18:56):
And I think that's the I stance,
Rachel Casey (00:18:58):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:18:58):
it's like you're talking from the first person and I still don't understand how I'm
Rachel Casey (00:19:04):
sober because I just didn't think I'd ever be sober.
Rachel Casey (00:19:07):
I just really didn't think that that would be an option.
Rachel Casey (00:19:13):
Like I never thought I would say that.
Julie Fontes (00:19:16):
So it's wonderful.
Julie Fontes (00:19:18):
I'm so happy for you and your child.
Rachel Casey (00:19:21):
And he changed, you know, and I don't know if what you saw.
Rachel Casey (00:19:25):
So if you had the five,
Rachel Casey (00:19:27):
did you notice a difference during the five year stint or how old was your daughter
Rachel Casey (00:19:31):
at that time?
Julie Fontes (00:19:33):
So that was actually kind of perfectly timed because she was 10 when I quit drinking.
Julie Fontes (00:19:38):
Me and her dad had split up when she was three.
Julie Fontes (00:19:41):
I did all of my heavy drinking when she was at her dad's house.
Julie Fontes (00:19:45):
Okay.
Julie Fontes (00:19:46):
So she didn't really see me drunk.
Colin Casey (00:19:49):
Cause you did say you were kind of one of the, where you binge on.
Julie Fontes (00:19:52):
So I would make up for all the time when I was with my daughter and had to be sober
Julie Fontes (00:19:59):
and be this one person,
Julie Fontes (00:20:01):
this sober mom.
Julie Fontes (00:20:02):
And when she would go to her dad's, I would just go insane.
Julie Fontes (00:20:07):
She didn't really see so much of a change.
Julie Fontes (00:20:12):
She didn't really realize that I had a drinking problem until,
Julie Fontes (00:20:16):
She was much older, I guess.
Julie Fontes (00:20:18):
And then she did.
Julie Fontes (00:20:19):
It's very normal in our family.
Rachel Casey (00:20:21):
My mom is sober.
Rachel Casey (00:20:23):
So my mom just hit 10 years.
Rachel Casey (00:20:24):
And that's awesome.
Colin Casey (00:20:26):
When I remember your mom got sober right before you turned 21.
Rachel Casey (00:20:31):
When I was young, I swore I'd never drink, never become my parents.
Rachel Casey (00:20:35):
I believe I'm truly alcoholic because once I had my first drink,
Rachel Casey (00:20:40):
I don't believe I even had a choice anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:20:42):
Like the sip, it was done.
Rachel Casey (00:20:45):
It was like, this is the thing.
Rachel Casey (00:20:47):
This is the thing.
Rachel Casey (00:20:47):
It makes you feel.
Rachel Casey (00:20:50):
We don't have one belief over the other, but in AA, I like the description.
Rachel Casey (00:20:55):
Bill says it's just that elusive feeling.
Rachel Casey (00:20:58):
And then when it becomes too bad,
Rachel Casey (00:21:00):
he says,
Rachel Casey (00:21:00):
you feel like you're in quick stand and it's all around you.
Rachel Casey (00:21:03):
You can't grasp anything.
Rachel Casey (00:21:05):
And that's exactly how I felt at the end.
Rachel Casey (00:21:07):
I can't go with it.
Rachel Casey (00:21:08):
I can't go without it.
Rachel Casey (00:21:10):
There is no correct answer in AA.
Rachel Casey (00:21:14):
what's wrong and then you have to learn
Rachel Casey (00:21:17):
I didn't even know who I was.
Rachel Casey (00:21:18):
And I think you kind of said that, but learning who you are, you kind of feel a little lost.
Rachel Casey (00:21:23):
I didn't know I liked reading.
Rachel Casey (00:21:24):
It's a little embarrassing that I can struggle at times.
Rachel Casey (00:21:28):
And I really liked the words you use.
Rachel Casey (00:21:30):
So did you have a literacy background before?
Rachel Casey (00:21:32):
Like, what did you study at Caltech?
Julie Fontes (00:21:34):
Yeah, I studied creative writing.
Rachel Casey (00:21:37):
I was like, you definitely have, even the way your chapters are put.
Rachel Casey (00:21:41):
I really like for someone who's now almost three years in school is definitely elevated.
Rachel Casey (00:21:48):
my vocabulary,
Rachel Casey (00:21:49):
but I was going to say it's,
Rachel Casey (00:21:52):
I just like the bigger words that I'm like,
Rachel Casey (00:21:55):
okay,
Rachel Casey (00:21:55):
wait,
Rachel Casey (00:21:55):
I might have to go look that up and I can get the context,
Rachel Casey (00:21:59):
but I like to look at what's,
Rachel Casey (00:22:03):
what's,
Rachel Casey (00:22:03):
what did you have?
Rachel Casey (00:22:04):
I just loved like performance, commencement, penance, limerence.
Rachel Casey (00:22:07):
Like I looked at it.
Julie Fontes (00:22:10):
Did you look it up?
Julie Fontes (00:22:12):
I was looking at me.
Julie Fontes (00:22:13):
It's such an intense,
Julie Fontes (00:22:15):
thing how did you use your words with that like what was the idea so i didn't like
Julie Fontes (00:22:23):
start out like i had a developmental editor who told me to break it up into these
Julie Fontes (00:22:28):
sections and then she suggested names for them i didn't have the names until it was
Julie Fontes (00:22:34):
like time to almost time to publish
Julie Fontes (00:22:38):
But I found Limerence was like on a podcast episode.
Julie Fontes (00:22:42):
Jillian Tarecki, I don't know if you've heard of her.
Julie Fontes (00:22:44):
No.
Julie Fontes (00:22:46):
She's a love and relationship coach, therapist.
Julie Fontes (00:22:51):
She's wonderful, brilliant.
Julie Fontes (00:22:53):
Check it out.
Julie Fontes (00:22:54):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:22:54):
I think it's called Jillian on Love is the name of her podcast.
Julie Fontes (00:23:00):
But she talks about Limerence, which is something that happened when I got sober and I...
Julie Fontes (00:23:08):
my relationship ended,
Julie Fontes (00:23:09):
I became obsessed with someone that I worked with and it didn't make any sense to
Julie Fontes (00:23:16):
me what was happening,
Julie Fontes (00:23:17):
like why it was happening.
Julie Fontes (00:23:20):
Like I could see it from outside of myself and it looked like kind of a mental illness.
Rachel Casey (00:23:29):
I mean, I feel like it takes with, you know, there's, I know what you're talking about.
Rachel Casey (00:23:34):
Again, I understand he's never worked in the restaurant industry.
Rachel Casey (00:23:38):
I totally get it.
Rachel Casey (00:23:38):
Like I'm with work or was it work?
Rachel Casey (00:23:40):
You said, right.
Julie Fontes (00:23:42):
It was someone that I worked with, which I never date coworkers, but.
Julie Fontes (00:23:46):
Oh, I did.
Julie Fontes (00:23:47):
And I never will again.
Rachel Casey (00:23:50):
It's not what I'd recommend.
Julie Fontes (00:23:52):
No, never again.
Rachel Casey (00:23:54):
I guess I should say never because I still tell, you know, I think.
Rachel Casey (00:23:59):
there's just these divine interventions that you kind of just know things like what
Rachel Casey (00:24:03):
you're describing right now.
Rachel Casey (00:24:04):
And I will let you continue of kind of having like that.
Rachel Casey (00:24:06):
I can see what it looks like from a top, but like, I'm still doing it.
Julie Fontes (00:24:10):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:24:10):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:24:11):
Like, like a session.
Julie Fontes (00:24:13):
Like I,
Julie Fontes (00:24:17):
things get planted in people's head over and over again like okay is he gonna text
Julie Fontes (00:24:23):
is he gonna text me what's going on oh i can go real cringe on he didn't like he
Julie Fontes (00:24:27):
didn't do social media so it was like i don't even have anything to look at that's
Julie Fontes (00:24:32):
so i would try to do a background check
Rachel Casey (00:24:36):
I would, I was psycho.
Rachel Casey (00:24:38):
Like I would see your online on Facebook or see you read my message and be like,
Rachel Casey (00:24:42):
I can see you read it.
Rachel Casey (00:24:43):
I met you when I was 22.
Rachel Casey (00:24:45):
There are so many red flags you saw and you proceeded.
Rachel Casey (00:24:48):
So this is on you.
Colin Casey (00:24:50):
I saw multiple because I was also drunk.
Colin Casey (00:24:52):
Probably one red flag, but I saw.
Rachel Casey (00:24:54):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:24:55):
And during our fights, when I threw things, when I got real drunk, real angry, I was a thrower.
Rachel Casey (00:25:01):
Like, I will throw a bar stool or a chair in the house.
Rachel Casey (00:25:05):
And,
Rachel Casey (00:25:05):
like,
Rachel Casey (00:25:05):
once we're fighting and it's stuck in the wall and the fight stopped because he's like,
Rachel Casey (00:25:11):
ah,
Rachel Casey (00:25:11):
that's just impressive.
Rachel Casey (00:25:12):
He was like, I'm over it.
Rachel Casey (00:25:14):
And I'm, like, throwing it at him.
Rachel Casey (00:25:16):
That's really, really nice.
Rachel Casey (00:25:17):
And, I mean, again, psycho.
Colin Casey (00:25:19):
It looked like a tornado just hit the house.
Colin Casey (00:25:22):
Things are sticking out of walls and things.
Colin Casey (00:25:24):
I'm like, oh, that's kind of cool.
Rachel Casey (00:25:25):
So, I understand when you say, like, I think that's just with
Rachel Casey (00:25:32):
I don't, so do you identify as alcoholic or you just, or not?
Rachel Casey (00:25:36):
That's not.
Rachel Casey (00:25:37):
No, I don't.
Julie Fontes (00:25:40):
I don't just being alcohol.
Julie Fontes (00:25:42):
So how do you, I don't put any labels on myself.
Rachel Casey (00:25:46):
I think that's, we're both again, very open.
Rachel Casey (00:25:50):
It's the same when we talk about religion and God, like,
Rachel Casey (00:25:54):
I'm more of a meditation turn it over in the universe.
Rachel Casey (00:25:57):
Like it just has to go to something.
Rachel Casey (00:26:00):
It's not me.
Rachel Casey (00:26:01):
It has to go.
Rachel Casey (00:26:02):
I don't care if it exists or not, but in my head, I'm giving it.
Rachel Casey (00:26:07):
to something because I gotta let go.
Rachel Casey (00:26:10):
I don't know how to let go.
Rachel Casey (00:26:12):
And God is just the easier term than breaking it down.
Colin Casey (00:26:14):
I'm just too lazy to think of a different word.
Colin Casey (00:26:17):
So I just say God or higher power,
Colin Casey (00:26:19):
but I don't necessarily believe in the same thing,
Colin Casey (00:26:23):
like a church's version of God.
Julie Fontes (00:26:24):
I guess I have a hard time with it because I feel like people who keep drinking get a pass.
Julie Fontes (00:26:33):
They don't have to call themselves alcoholic, even though...
Julie Fontes (00:26:37):
to say I was alcoholic when I was drinking it feels like the label is I cannot
Julie Fontes (00:26:43):
label myself in any way as bad because I will beat myself up with it historically
Julie Fontes (00:26:48):
I'm just like yeah you're just the kind of person who can't handle anything like
Julie Fontes (00:26:53):
but like I feel like in quitting drinking I've beyond that
Julie Fontes (00:27:01):
I'm now addicted to other things actually.
Julie Fontes (00:27:04):
Oh yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:27:04):
I mean, you joke that this is our new addiction.
Rachel Casey (00:27:07):
So I try to look at my alcohol usage.
Rachel Casey (00:27:10):
I don't regret because I use it as an experience to help the next person.
Rachel Casey (00:27:15):
If I didn't go through that, then I wouldn't be able to relate.
Rachel Casey (00:27:20):
So that's how, I mean, at least for me, I give it my little spin of it's like my superpower.
Julie Fontes (00:27:27):
So do your drinking people come up to you and like tell you how they're going to quit drinking?
Julie Fontes (00:27:33):
I feel like people do that to me all the time while they're drunk.
Colin Casey (00:27:37):
I know we talked about it recently in one of our shows.
Colin Casey (00:27:41):
I went to a bachelor party and I was maybe a year and a half.
Colin Casey (00:27:45):
Sober or so.
Colin Casey (00:27:46):
And luckily, one of the guys on the bachelor party with has had three years sobriety.
Colin Casey (00:27:51):
So the two of us kind of piled around together.
Colin Casey (00:27:55):
But one of the guys there who is from England who
Colin Casey (00:27:59):
I mean, pretty much all the other eight guys were getting as wasted as possible.
Colin Casey (00:28:04):
The nice thing was when the check came at the end of the weekend,
Colin Casey (00:28:07):
we didn't have to pay for the alcohol because we didn't drink it.
Rachel Casey (00:28:10):
Yeah, I wouldn't know.
Rachel Casey (00:28:11):
And it's so expensive.
Rachel Casey (00:28:12):
Now that I'm sober, I'm like, oh, my God.
Colin Casey (00:28:14):
He would apologize to me and say, like, oh, I don't usually drink this much.
Colin Casey (00:28:18):
I'm like, I don't care, dude.
Colin Casey (00:28:21):
I really like apologizing to me.
Rachel Casey (00:28:24):
Yeah, I'm not judging.
Rachel Casey (00:28:25):
I'm like, that was me.
Rachel Casey (00:28:26):
Yeah, I was that person.
Rachel Casey (00:28:30):
when people start getting in my bubble or I get like overly I try to say in my head
Rachel Casey (00:28:37):
show the grace that you have been shown before you got sober I think the best way
Rachel Casey (00:28:43):
to make sober it's not a promotional thing it's a compliment if people are asking
Rachel Casey (00:28:48):
because that means you're making it look good
Rachel Casey (00:28:51):
You're making sober look good.
Rachel Casey (00:28:53):
People always want to be pulled up, but typically it's dragged down.
Rachel Casey (00:28:57):
When you have that light in your eyes,
Rachel Casey (00:28:59):
that sparkle,
Rachel Casey (00:29:00):
it's not something everyone can obtain because it takes the white knucklings where
Rachel Casey (00:29:06):
I never saw my eyes change.
Rachel Casey (00:29:08):
It wasn't until I wanted to change that my eyes changed.
Rachel Casey (00:29:12):
My face, it was really, you can see it in the pictures.
Rachel Casey (00:29:14):
It's cool to see.
Julie Fontes (00:29:17):
It's like a relief to drink anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:29:19):
I don't have to think about it anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:29:21):
During the first few months, it was hard.
Rachel Casey (00:29:24):
It's not like I didn't still crave alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:29:27):
I craved it like crazy in the beginning,
Rachel Casey (00:29:30):
but the meeting to meeting kept me because I didn't have a job.
Rachel Casey (00:29:33):
I had lost my job.
Rachel Casey (00:29:34):
I wasn't in school.
Rachel Casey (00:29:35):
I hadn't applied yet.
Rachel Casey (00:29:36):
I had a two-year-old and then he was starting daycare.
Rachel Casey (00:29:39):
I think AA was good for me.
Rachel Casey (00:29:42):
Because it kept me in a community when I had nothing else to rely on because I'd
Rachel Casey (00:29:47):
lost everything else.
Rachel Casey (00:29:48):
We weren't getting along because he didn't want to do AA.
Rachel Casey (00:29:50):
And I'm thinking he's going to go back out and drink because a little bit of the AA
Rachel Casey (00:29:54):
culture will make you think that anyone who's not doing it,
Colin Casey (00:29:58):
they're out there.
Rachel Casey (00:29:59):
And I'm just like, why don't you want to come on the lifeboat?
Rachel Casey (00:30:04):
But I realize not everyone has to do AA.
Rachel Casey (00:30:07):
I think it was my fear that I would drink again.
Rachel Casey (00:30:11):
that I projected onto anyone else who wasn't doing what I was doing.
Rachel Casey (00:30:15):
Cause I'm just like fear, fear, fear.
Rachel Casey (00:30:17):
And then I realized I'm not in control.
Rachel Casey (00:30:20):
Once I wasn't scared, I didn't care how he was recovering.
Rachel Casey (00:30:24):
So do you plan on doing any more like following up over the next few years?
Rachel Casey (00:30:29):
I know you just published your first one, so I'm not trying to.
Julie Fontes (00:30:32):
I don't think I'm going to write another book, another memoir type book.
Julie Fontes (00:30:37):
no i definitely like the act of writing the story made me feel even more crazy than
Julie Fontes (00:30:45):
living it carrying it yeah it's all very emotionally taxing so my next book is
Rachel Casey (00:30:52):
gonna definitely be fiction oh yeah well and your creative writing but i just
Rachel Casey (00:30:57):
wasn't sure if you're still like
Rachel Casey (00:31:00):
doing the notes like he's he is with stand-up comedy he's constantly doing notes in
Rachel Casey (00:31:04):
his phone or he has a little book in his backpack yeah i'm not as good at that but
Rachel Casey (00:31:09):
i'm also not as much of a writer yeah i'm more of a speaker than anything but uh i
Rachel Casey (00:31:15):
was just curious on if you're kind of like more aware of oh i want to write this
Rachel Casey (00:31:21):
down or note it but you also have the weekly
Colin Casey (00:31:25):
On Substack.
Colin Casey (00:31:25):
I was going to ask, are you just going to do maybe updates?
Julie Fontes (00:31:28):
Substack is the sequel.
Colin Casey (00:31:31):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:31:31):
Where you can continue where you are in your life.
Julie Fontes (00:31:35):
That goes to my Substack with the idea that people,
Julie Fontes (00:31:38):
if they're curious and want to know what happened next,
Julie Fontes (00:31:42):
it's all there on Substack.
Rachel Casey (00:31:44):
And we will put the Substack link in the show notes.
Rachel Casey (00:31:48):
So that way you are able to access it.
Rachel Casey (00:31:49):
Is the Amazon link the best?
Rachel Casey (00:31:51):
Or you want me to just put your website?
Rachel Casey (00:31:52):
I think my website.
Julie Fontes (00:31:54):
And it's just your name.
Rachel Casey (00:31:54):
It's Julie, Julie fonts.com.
Rachel Casey (00:31:57):
Yep.
Rachel Casey (00:31:57):
But yeah,
Rachel Casey (00:31:59):
that one of the things that's happening in AA,
Rachel Casey (00:32:02):
and that's one of the things that started kind of turning me in the other direction
Rachel Casey (00:32:07):
or trying not other direction,
Rachel Casey (00:32:09):
but trying to find,
Rachel Casey (00:32:10):
like,
Rachel Casey (00:32:11):
I definitely want inclusive,
Rachel Casey (00:32:12):
like the heart of.
Rachel Casey (00:32:15):
Anything I do,
Rachel Casey (00:32:16):
like the podcast or writing is like,
Rachel Casey (00:32:18):
I just want to help someone who was struggling like I was struggling.
Rachel Casey (00:32:21):
And I think that's what you say in your book is like,
Rachel Casey (00:32:24):
this story might not resonate,
Rachel Casey (00:32:26):
but if it does and you relate,
Rachel Casey (00:32:28):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:32:29):
there's hope.
(00:32:30):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:32:35):
i felt so dumb about the reading thing and one of the new pitches at aa is that
Rachel Casey (00:32:41):
they wanted to develop a big book that was at a fifth grade reading level because
Rachel Casey (00:32:44):
there's a lot of people that get sober and it's okay i wasn't at fifth grade but i
Rachel Casey (00:32:53):
can understand how that would feel
Rachel Casey (00:32:57):
If you're not able to read and they vetoed it.
Rachel Casey (00:33:00):
Cause they're like, nothing can change.
Julie Fontes (00:33:02):
Everything must stay the same.
Julie Fontes (00:33:03):
That's part of one of the things that did turn me off is because I am so bookish.
Julie Fontes (00:33:08):
I did try to read the big book once and I feel like you shouldn't feel ashamed
Julie Fontes (00:33:14):
about not being able to read it because it's very unreadable.
Colin Casey (00:33:19):
Yeah.
Colin Casey (00:33:19):
And the terminology.
Rachel Casey (00:33:22):
So I break down the big book.
Rachel Casey (00:33:24):
I've done a lot of studies in making it in my terms and sharing that once I've
Rachel Casey (00:33:33):
heard Bill speak,
Rachel Casey (00:33:35):
you get a bit more of,
Rachel Casey (00:33:36):
I mean,
Rachel Casey (00:33:36):
he was a stockbroker.
Rachel Casey (00:33:37):
He wasn't a writer.
Rachel Casey (00:33:38):
This is also 1920s.
Rachel Casey (00:33:39):
He wasn't talking about women.
Rachel Casey (00:33:41):
That's why there's the whole chapter to the wives.
Rachel Casey (00:33:44):
That's the only chapter I really don't like.
Rachel Casey (00:33:47):
Cause I'm reading it and I'm like,
Rachel Casey (00:33:49):
you guys make it sound like all the women are just victims to their,
Rachel Casey (00:33:54):
not nagging,
Rachel Casey (00:33:55):
but like you're not in the role that he talks about.
Rachel Casey (00:33:58):
You're gonna have to let your husband go to the meetings and recover.
Rachel Casey (00:34:01):
You can't ask him to stay at home.
Rachel Casey (00:34:03):
And I'm like, God.
Colin Casey (00:34:05):
Or the, the one where you have to bring a drunk to your house and let them sleep on the couch.
Colin Casey (00:34:10):
And if you have to fight them, then.
Colin Casey (00:34:14):
You know, and it's like, what?
Rachel Casey (00:34:16):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:34:16):
So it's looking for the similarities that I do understand connecting with another alcoholic.
Rachel Casey (00:34:23):
Definitely.
Rachel Casey (00:34:23):
I think this again,
Rachel Casey (00:34:25):
for where I was at in my life,
Rachel Casey (00:34:27):
the community is something I needed to get me to the next step of alcohol free.
Rachel Casey (00:34:33):
I don't think I would have survived on my own.
Julie Fontes (00:34:35):
Yeah.
Julie Fontes (00:34:36):
That makes total sense.
Rachel Casey (00:34:38):
Well, is there anything else you'd like to share, promote?
Rachel Casey (00:34:43):
Like I said, I'm going to put it in the show notes and the book is like a normal person.
Rachel Casey (00:34:48):
And I see it's behind you.
Rachel Casey (00:34:49):
I wanted to have a cover to show.
Julie Fontes (00:34:53):
I'll show it.
Rachel Casey (00:34:54):
Isn't it cute?
Rachel Casey (00:34:55):
I love the color.
Colin Casey (00:34:56):
Definitely grabs your attention.
Rachel Casey (00:34:58):
And I think the drawn hand art is really, I tried to do that with our first one with synergy.
Rachel Casey (00:35:03):
We had the outlines because I love that look.
Rachel Casey (00:35:06):
Yeah, but my artist is great.
Rachel Casey (00:35:08):
She's it's, that's so cool.
Rachel Casey (00:35:11):
And, um, well, we, we really, really appreciate you being our first guest for having me.
Colin Casey (00:35:18):
Well, thank you for helping me.
Rachel Casey (00:35:20):
Thank you again.
Rachel Casey (00:35:21):
And make sure to check out, we'll put her link for the website as well as the sub stack.
Rachel Casey (00:35:26):
The sub stack's great.
Rachel Casey (00:35:27):
I follow her on sub stack.
Rachel Casey (00:35:28):
Okay.
Rachel Casey (00:35:28):
We'll just say thank you for listening to sober banter and thank you, Julie, for joining us.
Colin Casey (00:35:33):
Thank you, Julie.
Colin Casey (00:35:33):
Thank you.
Rachel Casey (00:35:34):
We hope you have a good rest of your day.
