Rachel Casey (00:00:06):
Hello and welcome to Sober Banter.
Rachel Casey (00:00:08):
My name is Rachel and we have a guest today.
Rachel Casey (00:00:11):
His name is David M and we are getting very lucky.
Rachel Casey (00:00:15):
We have another gentleman who is sharing his experience that has 40 years, almost 41 sober.
Rachel Casey (00:00:22):
Welcome, David.
Rachel Casey (00:00:24):
What's your sobriety date?
David McMenimen (00:00:26):
June 30th, 1984.
Rachel Casey (00:00:27):
If you want to share a little bit of your story.
David McMenimen (00:00:29):
I came to sobriety.
David McMenimen (00:00:30):
I had had my third DUI and the last night I drank,
David McMenimen (00:00:34):
I drank myself into a blackout,
David McMenimen (00:00:35):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:00:36):
a bad car accident.
David McMenimen (00:00:37):
Total two automobiles, mine and somebody else's.
David McMenimen (00:00:40):
I don't remember much of what happened that night.
David McMenimen (00:00:42):
I was so drunk.
David McMenimen (00:00:43):
Woke up in ICU in the hospital the next morning.
David McMenimen (00:00:46):
Things plugged into my chest, and I didn't know how I got there.
David McMenimen (00:00:50):
And I woke up to a doctor and a cop standing over my hospital bed.
David McMenimen (00:00:54):
The cop was a guy that I didn't know really at all,
David McMenimen (00:00:57):
only from playing against him in a basketball league.
David McMenimen (00:00:59):
And I knew who he was, but he was in the station that night when I was brought into the station.
David McMenimen (00:01:04):
I don't remember that at all.
David McMenimen (00:01:06):
So he came to the hospital the next morning to see how he was doing,
David McMenimen (00:01:10):
which was very nice of him.
David McMenimen (00:01:11):
I haven't seen him since.
David McMenimen (00:01:12):
And the doctor was just checking on me.
David McMenimen (00:01:15):
Later on that morning, my father came to see me in the hospital.
David McMenimen (00:01:19):
And he pointed to all this stuff that was plugged into me.
David McMenimen (00:01:21):
I had a broken collarbone.
David McMenimen (00:01:22):
I had some other chest injuries.
David McMenimen (00:01:25):
And my drinking had driven him nuts for the entire time I drank.
David McMenimen (00:01:30):
And he just pointed to this stuff that was plugged into me.
David McMenimen (00:01:32):
And he said, does this tell you something?
David McMenimen (00:01:35):
about yourself.
David McMenimen (00:01:36):
And I said, yeah, I need help.
David McMenimen (00:01:37):
And that's the first time I can remember telling him or anyone else that they needed help.
David McMenimen (00:01:41):
Help for me up to that point was like, make this jackpot go away.
David McMenimen (00:01:46):
Loaned me $100, loaned me $1,000.
David McMenimen (00:01:48):
All outside stuff, not the kind of help I needed.
David McMenimen (00:01:52):
Laying in that hospital bed, I knew something had to change.
David McMenimen (00:01:55):
I didn't know what.
David McMenimen (00:01:56):
I didn't even know it was going to involve drinking.
David McMenimen (00:01:58):
But I knew drinking had put me in this position I was in.
David McMenimen (00:02:02):
And I was in the hospital for five days.
David McMenimen (00:02:04):
I got out, and I went to see my lawyer to find out what was going to happen in court.
David McMenimen (00:02:08):
And he had defended me before, but we weren't friends.
David McMenimen (00:02:12):
I didn't feel like he knew me well.
David McMenimen (00:02:14):
It was strictly a lawyer-client relationship.
David McMenimen (00:02:17):
And when I walked into his office, I did what I always did.
David McMenimen (00:02:20):
I started to lie and make up excuses about what happened that night.
David McMenimen (00:02:23):
And he cut me off right away.
David McMenimen (00:02:25):
And he said, you have to stop drinking.
David McMenimen (00:02:28):
And I said, do you have any suggestions?
David McMenimen (00:02:29):
He said, try AA.
David McMenimen (00:02:31):
Third D, why?
David McMenimen (00:02:32):
There was a possibility I could have gone away, gone to prison.
David McMenimen (00:02:35):
Because by then they were sending people, repeat offenders away.
David McMenimen (00:02:38):
I knew that was a possibility.
David McMenimen (00:02:40):
But he said, I can keep you out of jail, but you have to stop drinking.
David McMenimen (00:02:44):
You're going to lose your license for at least a couple of years.
David McMenimen (00:02:47):
So he made arrangements for me to start going to meetings,
David McMenimen (00:02:50):
AA meetings with a friend of his,
David McMenimen (00:02:51):
with Sobalik.
David McMenimen (00:02:53):
10 years, complete stranger.
David McMenimen (00:02:55):
This guy brought me to meetings pretty much every night,
David McMenimen (00:02:58):
different meetings,
David McMenimen (00:02:59):
meetings he was used to going to.
David McMenimen (00:03:00):
And even from the first meeting,
David McMenimen (00:03:02):
I could identify with some of the things I heard,
David McMenimen (00:03:04):
the drinking the people did,
David McMenimen (00:03:06):
the war stories,
David McMenimen (00:03:07):
the trouble they got themselves into.
David McMenimen (00:03:09):
But I wasn't ready to call myself an alcoholic.
David McMenimen (00:03:11):
This went on for like a good month or so.
David McMenimen (00:03:13):
And as we were going to meetings every night, AA, going to AA meetings felt like a second job.
David McMenimen (00:03:18):
I had a job that I held down despite my drinking.
David McMenimen (00:03:21):
But I'd go to work.
David McMenimen (00:03:23):
I used to run.
David McMenimen (00:03:23):
I'd go out for a run,
David McMenimen (00:03:24):
and then it was time to go to an AA meeting,
David McMenimen (00:03:27):
and I'd meet this guy at the meeting.
David McMenimen (00:03:29):
I also noticed that I was feeling a lot better.
David McMenimen (00:03:33):
I wasn't passing out.
David McMenimen (00:03:34):
I wasn't blacking out.
David McMenimen (00:03:35):
I was sleeping better.
David McMenimen (00:03:36):
I was remembering going to bed at night.
David McMenimen (00:03:39):
I was saying to myself, I was waiting to go to a meeting one night.
David McMenimen (00:03:41):
There might be something that is not drinking in sobriety.
David McMenimen (00:03:44):
That's what I attributed it to, because it had been over a month since I had had a drink.
David McMenimen (00:03:49):
And I went to a meeting and the guy said,
David McMenimen (00:03:52):
if you can no longer drink in safety,
David McMenimen (00:03:54):
you're an alcoholic.
David McMenimen (00:03:55):
And I don't doubt that somebody had said that at a meeting before.
David McMenimen (00:03:58):
This night, my ears were wide open and I heard it clear as a bell.
David McMenimen (00:04:02):
I thought about that.
David McMenimen (00:04:03):
It had been a long time since I'm able to take a drink in safety.
David McMenimen (00:04:07):
I was never a daily drinker.
David McMenimen (00:04:09):
I never get into a jackpot every night I drank.
David McMenimen (00:04:12):
Sometimes I went out and drank and got home without incident.
David McMenimen (00:04:16):
But I had had a lot of jackpots along the way during my 20 years of drinking.
David McMenimen (00:04:22):
And then people said, keep coming here and you'll hear your story, which I didn't believe.
David McMenimen (00:04:27):
Then I heard my story shortly thereafter.
David McMenimen (00:04:30):
And that's when I kind of encountered myself and I said to myself,
David McMenimen (00:04:34):
these people aren't bullshitting me.
David McMenimen (00:04:35):
You know, it's like they're reading my mail.
David McMenimen (00:04:37):
People said, pray to have the obsession to drink be lifted.
David McMenimen (00:04:42):
And I never prayed, but after about two months, the obsession was lifted.
David McMenimen (00:04:47):
I wasn't thinking about drinking all the time.
David McMenimen (00:04:50):
I attribute that to AA 12 step and the people in it.
David McMenimen (00:04:54):
And I started to identify as an alcoholic and I've been sober ever since.
David McMenimen (00:04:58):
The first two, two and a half years, all I did was not drink and go to meetings.
David McMenimen (00:05:05):
every day, twice a day on weekends.
Rachel Casey (00:05:07):
That was about my story too.
David McMenimen (00:05:09):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:05:09):
I lived there.
David McMenimen (00:05:10):
I had made my mind up.
David McMenimen (00:05:11):
I was never going to speak at a meeting.
David McMenimen (00:05:13):
I said to myself,
David McMenimen (00:05:14):
I didn't tell anyone else this,
David McMenimen (00:05:15):
but I won't drink and I'll come here every day,
David McMenimen (00:05:18):
but I'm not going to speak.
David McMenimen (00:05:19):
I'm not going to be like all these other people who are pouring their hearts out
David McMenimen (00:05:23):
and talking about their tortured souls.
David McMenimen (00:05:25):
And then I'd sit in meetings and,
David McMenimen (00:05:27):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:05:27):
12-step meetings,
David McMenimen (00:05:28):
well,
David McMenimen (00:05:29):
around here anyway,
David McMenimen (00:05:29):
they have them on a banner on the wall.
David McMenimen (00:05:32):
You can't miss them.
David McMenimen (00:05:33):
And I'd read them and
David McMenimen (00:05:35):
Some of those things are up there searching and fearless moral inventories.
David McMenimen (00:05:38):
And when I was wrong,
David McMenimen (00:05:39):
promptly admit it and prayer and meditation and,
David McMenimen (00:05:43):
uh,
David McMenimen (00:05:44):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:05:44):
being powerless.
David McMenimen (00:05:46):
Those were part of my repertoire when I was drinking.
David McMenimen (00:05:49):
I hadn't gone to like a, an actual 12 and 12 step meeting.
David McMenimen (00:05:54):
There's a guy I'd become friendly with and he had a men's step meeting at his house
David McMenimen (00:05:58):
with about a dozen guys.
David McMenimen (00:05:59):
And he used to talk about how much it helped him and helped other guys.
David McMenimen (00:06:03):
And, uh,
David McMenimen (00:06:04):
He blindsided me one night at a meeting, and he said, I'm starting the meeting up again.
David McMenimen (00:06:08):
I have one seat open, which might have been bullshit.
David McMenimen (00:06:11):
He might have had 10 seats open.
David McMenimen (00:06:12):
But he said, do you want to join in?
David McMenimen (00:06:14):
It was like when somebody offered me a drink, I couldn't refuse.
David McMenimen (00:06:17):
So I said, okay, I'll go.
David McMenimen (00:06:19):
So I went, and it was 12 guys sitting around this kitchen table.
Rachel Casey (00:06:25):
Not 12 angry men, though, right?
David McMenimen (00:06:27):
Well, some of them were right, dude.
David McMenimen (00:06:30):
They had all, almost all of them had taken a fourth and fifth step.
David McMenimen (00:06:34):
I hadn't.
David McMenimen (00:06:34):
So I felt like a fish out of water.
David McMenimen (00:06:36):
But it made me take a look at myself and realize there was more wrong with me than
David McMenimen (00:06:41):
just an alcohol problem.
David McMenimen (00:06:43):
They had character defects or shortcomings, whatever you want to call them.
David McMenimen (00:06:48):
that I needed to address.
David McMenimen (00:06:49):
There was a guy at that meeting,
David McMenimen (00:06:51):
not the guy who hosted the meeting,
David McMenimen (00:06:53):
but there was another guy every week.
David McMenimen (00:06:54):
He used to say, you've got to take a fourth and fifth step.
David McMenimen (00:06:57):
You've got to take a fourth and fifth step.
David McMenimen (00:06:59):
And it was kind of intimidating.
David McMenimen (00:07:02):
I didn't like it.
David McMenimen (00:07:02):
But finally, after one meeting, I sucked my guts up.
David McMenimen (00:07:06):
I went up to him and I said, I've never taken a fourth and fifth step.
David McMenimen (00:07:10):
How do I get started?
David McMenimen (00:07:11):
I thought for sure he'd jump down my throat and say, what are you kidding me?
David McMenimen (00:07:15):
You've been here for two years.
David McMenimen (00:07:16):
You haven't taken a fourth and fifth step.
David McMenimen (00:07:18):
But he said, go to the 12 and 12 book.
David McMenimen (00:07:22):
And he told me the page.
David McMenimen (00:07:23):
And he said, answer the questions.
David McMenimen (00:07:25):
Get something down in the writing.
David McMenimen (00:07:27):
Don't beat yourself up over it.
David McMenimen (00:07:29):
that's a way to get started on a fourth and fifth.
David McMenimen (00:07:32):
So I said, okay.
David McMenimen (00:07:33):
So then I had to ask him who I should take it with.
David McMenimen (00:07:36):
And I was also scared to death that he was going to say him,
David McMenimen (00:07:39):
which I didn't want to do at all,
David McMenimen (00:07:41):
but he pointed me in the direction of somebody else.
David McMenimen (00:07:44):
And he said, it'll be the feedback you get.
David McMenimen (00:07:46):
And it was true.
David McMenimen (00:07:47):
You know,
David McMenimen (00:07:47):
I sat in the guy's car for three hours and I had stuff written down and,
David McMenimen (00:07:52):
uh,
David McMenimen (00:07:53):
I talked and this guy,
David McMenimen (00:07:55):
he told me about his experience.
David McMenimen (00:07:56):
And, um,
David McMenimen (00:07:58):
I wound up going to that meeting for like three and a half years,
David McMenimen (00:08:01):
like a fourth and fifth step a few times because of it.
David McMenimen (00:08:04):
And AA's just, the steps gave me a way of life.
David McMenimen (00:08:08):
There were little things I learned in there about be a friend amongst friends.
David McMenimen (00:08:14):
Be a worker amongst workers.
David McMenimen (00:08:16):
Do the work that's in front of you.
David McMenimen (00:08:18):
Treat people the way you'd like to be treated.
David McMenimen (00:08:20):
And there's one sentence in there somewhere.
David McMenimen (00:08:22):
It says, alcoholics are people that have never had a true relationship with another human being.
David McMenimen (00:08:29):
And even when I still read that today,
David McMenimen (00:08:31):
it's almost like it slaps me across the face because I'm an introvert by nature.
David McMenimen (00:08:37):
I never had a true relationship with another human being.
David McMenimen (00:08:39):
That one really jumped that at me.
David McMenimen (00:08:42):
Back it up to the beginning.
David McMenimen (00:08:43):
I grew up, I'm a native Bostonian.
David McMenimen (00:08:46):
I grew up right outside Boston, oldest of four children.
David McMenimen (00:08:50):
My parents were an alcoholics.
Rachel Casey (00:08:52):
I was going to ask that earlier,
Rachel Casey (00:08:54):
so I'm glad you just...
David McMenimen (00:08:56):
I didn't see a lot of drinking around my house.
David McMenimen (00:08:59):
I'm the oldest, and I was the trailblazer in my family as far as drinking and alcohol.
David McMenimen (00:09:04):
I've got a brother that suffers from this disease.
David McMenimen (00:09:07):
He's younger than I am.
David McMenimen (00:09:08):
He's out in the wilderness.
David McMenimen (00:09:10):
He tried getting sober a number of years ago, and he went back out, and he's still out there.
David McMenimen (00:09:15):
I don't have any regrets about my upbringing.
David McMenimen (00:09:18):
It wasn't perfect by any means, but...
David McMenimen (00:09:20):
It was okay.
David McMenimen (00:09:21):
I mean, parents, they were hardworking people.
David McMenimen (00:09:24):
They did the best they could.
David McMenimen (00:09:25):
I was the first in my family to graduate from college.
David McMenimen (00:09:28):
I mean, I picked up my first drink when I was 16, and I was a junior in high school.
David McMenimen (00:09:34):
Guys I went to high school with drank before I did,
David McMenimen (00:09:37):
and they used to tell me how good it made them feel.
David McMenimen (00:09:40):
I played basketball in high school.
David McMenimen (00:09:41):
I remember asking this guy on the basketball team, Tony, I said, he had said he had drank.
David McMenimen (00:09:46):
I said, what's it like when you drink?
David McMenimen (00:09:47):
And he said, um,
David McMenimen (00:09:49):
They went over to somebody's house.
David McMenimen (00:09:50):
Their parents went away for the weekend.
David McMenimen (00:09:52):
He said, we watched the Celtics on Lakers and Lakers from the West Coast.
David McMenimen (00:09:57):
And we got some pizza and we got some beer and the game ended and we shut the TV
David McMenimen (00:10:02):
off and we slept like babies.
David McMenimen (00:10:04):
that sounded great to me.
David McMenimen (00:10:06):
Probably for the first two years of my, that I drank, that's the way it was.
David McMenimen (00:10:10):
I get feeling good.
David McMenimen (00:10:12):
There were no jackpots.
David McMenimen (00:10:13):
A couple of times my parents caught me drinking, but I got beyond that.
David McMenimen (00:10:17):
But I went away to college when I was 18.
David McMenimen (00:10:20):
I went to college in New Hampshire and my family now is living in New Jersey.
David McMenimen (00:10:26):
And, um,
David McMenimen (00:10:28):
My drinking took right off when I went to college.
David McMenimen (00:10:31):
I went from drinking a six-pack once in a while to drinking all weekend long until
David McMenimen (00:10:38):
five years later when I got out of college.
David McMenimen (00:10:40):
I was just drinking all the time.
David McMenimen (00:10:43):
Now I could drink in bar rooms, which I really liked.
David McMenimen (00:10:46):
I would say from the time I was 18 until I was 36 when I finally got sober.
David McMenimen (00:10:51):
Alcohol was always a good idea, and nothing got in the way of me picking up a drink, you know.
David McMenimen (00:10:58):
I never said no when somebody said, let's go drinking.
David McMenimen (00:11:01):
I'd say yes, and I'd be on a dead run to the next bar where I was drinking.
Rachel Casey (00:11:06):
I think you touched on it earlier, too.
Rachel Casey (00:11:07):
It's the connection of I could always make a friend by buying a shot or having a
Rachel Casey (00:11:13):
beer or going to the bar.
Rachel Casey (00:11:15):
It didn't seem like a lot of work, if you will.
Rachel Casey (00:11:17):
It didn't require planning or having a commonality other than the drink.
Rachel Casey (00:11:23):
And then when the drink took effect, I took less effect.
Rachel Casey (00:11:29):
And it was...
Rachel Casey (00:11:31):
It's like an isolator's perfect storm because you start isolating less.
Rachel Casey (00:11:38):
And the thing you're doing is poison.
Rachel Casey (00:11:41):
It's death for me.
Rachel Casey (00:11:42):
But it was the connection point of most of my friendships.
David McMenimen (00:11:46):
It wasn't until I got sober I heard a guy say that.
David McMenimen (00:11:48):
When a drunk gets in trouble,
David McMenimen (00:11:51):
his or her drinking buddies walk out of their life and their real friends walk into
David McMenimen (00:11:56):
their life.
David McMenimen (00:11:57):
And that's what happened to me.
David McMenimen (00:11:58):
I mean, like I said, I barely knew my lawyer.
David McMenimen (00:12:00):
Then I didn't know this guy who started taking me to meetings.
David McMenimen (00:12:04):
And then after two months, I started going to meetings on my own.
David McMenimen (00:12:08):
And I went into these rooms that were filled with strangers.
David McMenimen (00:12:12):
I didn't know anyone.
David McMenimen (00:12:14):
And he instilled something.
David McMenimen (00:12:15):
I mean, this guy that took me to meetings.
David McMenimen (00:12:17):
We used to go to the same meetings all the time.
David McMenimen (00:12:20):
One thing that impressed me was when we'd go to the meetings, he'd introduce me as being new.
David McMenimen (00:12:27):
I'm checking things out, you know.
David McMenimen (00:12:30):
I hated that.
David McMenimen (00:12:31):
I wanted to be invisible.
David McMenimen (00:12:33):
I didn't want anyone to know I was there.
David McMenimen (00:12:35):
But when we went back to that meeting for the second time,
David McMenimen (00:12:38):
definitely by the third time,
David McMenimen (00:12:40):
I'd go in and people would say,
David McMenimen (00:12:41):
hey,
David McMenimen (00:12:41):
Dave,
David McMenimen (00:12:41):
how you doing?
David McMenimen (00:12:43):
I'm going, Jesus, these people remember who I am, and they're asking me how I'm doing.
David McMenimen (00:12:47):
So when I started to go to meetings on my own,
David McMenimen (00:12:51):
I went to the same schedule of meetings,
David McMenimen (00:12:54):
but in the same location,
David McMenimen (00:12:55):
different locations,
David McMenimen (00:12:56):
but the same meetings and the same thing happened.
David McMenimen (00:13:00):
People would ask me how I was doing, and that impressed me.
David McMenimen (00:13:03):
I mean, I didn't know these people.
David McMenimen (00:13:04):
They really didn't know me, but I became a familiar face.
David McMenimen (00:13:09):
And even today, when I go to live meetings, I like to see familiar faces.
David McMenimen (00:13:14):
I like to see the same people that show up all the time.
David McMenimen (00:13:17):
For the most part, it tells me they're serious about staying sober like I am.
Rachel Casey (00:13:20):
I thought about today in something that's, it used to be talked about in live meetings.
Rachel Casey (00:13:26):
I don't know about online, or maybe it's more so online online.
Rachel Casey (00:13:30):
people do it but for me things are running late it feels like I'm an alcoholic so
Rachel Casey (00:13:35):
the world is ending and I'm like why is it like or and guess what it's okay you can
Rachel Casey (00:13:42):
go to a meeting if it's 15 minutes late and people are just happy to see your face
Rachel Casey (00:13:46):
and that you're there they're not thinking oh why were they late why were they not
Rachel Casey (00:13:50):
here on time they're just like it's so nice to see a
Rachel Casey (00:13:54):
You can 30 minutes of a meeting,
Rachel Casey (00:13:56):
15 minutes of a meeting are better than zero minutes of a meeting.
Rachel Casey (00:14:00):
And I remember I struggled with that in the beginning.
Rachel Casey (00:14:02):
If I were late, I would just skip.
Rachel Casey (00:14:04):
And it's just because it was like an ego thing in the beginning,
Rachel Casey (00:14:07):
I think of,
Rachel Casey (00:14:08):
oh,
Rachel Casey (00:14:08):
everyone's going to notice I'm late.
Rachel Casey (00:14:10):
I want to be invisible.
Rachel Casey (00:14:11):
And guess what?
Rachel Casey (00:14:13):
I think it's if you haven't heard yet and you're listening, you're new.
Rachel Casey (00:14:17):
Go to the 50.
Rachel Casey (00:14:18):
It doesn't go to five minutes, honestly.
Rachel Casey (00:14:20):
Like it is, I think.
Rachel Casey (00:14:22):
Or what do you think?
Rachel Casey (00:14:24):
And don't you think it's nicer to see someone's face,
Rachel Casey (00:14:26):
even if it's the last 10 minutes of the meeting?
Rachel Casey (00:14:27):
Because it's like, hey, this person is just as serious as I am.
Rachel Casey (00:14:31):
And you're not thinking, oh, they missed the first 50 minutes.
Rachel Casey (00:14:33):
You're like, just glad to see you're still here.
Rachel Casey (00:14:36):
Still, so we're still trying.
David McMenimen (00:14:38):
Yeah,
David McMenimen (00:14:39):
but even when I go back to live meetings,
David McMenimen (00:14:41):
I go to mostly Zoom meetings now,
David McMenimen (00:14:43):
but when I go to live meetings,
David McMenimen (00:14:45):
it's good to see people that I used to see before.
David McMenimen (00:14:49):
And who knows why people come in late.
David McMenimen (00:14:51):
Maybe they have a good reason for it.
David McMenimen (00:14:53):
I don't know.
David McMenimen (00:14:54):
I don't take people's inventories about stuff like that.
David McMenimen (00:14:57):
I learned not to anyway.
David McMenimen (00:14:58):
It'd be in the beginning.
David McMenimen (00:14:59):
I did.
David McMenimen (00:14:59):
I used to say, you can't, I show up on time.
David McMenimen (00:15:02):
Why can't you, you know, I used to say that.
Rachel Casey (00:15:04):
And that's what I'm saying.
Rachel Casey (00:15:05):
Like, but it's not how it's looked at it.
Rachel Casey (00:15:09):
And that was probably more in my head.
Rachel Casey (00:15:11):
And that's why like doing a fourth step is like what taught me some of those,
Rachel Casey (00:15:18):
that ego,
Rachel Casey (00:15:19):
those emotions,
Rachel Casey (00:15:21):
Why do I think I'm so important?
Rachel Casey (00:15:24):
And again, sometimes it's just a nice check-in.
Rachel Casey (00:15:27):
I like just even hearing the beginning of a meeting.
Rachel Casey (00:15:31):
If I have to leave early, it's like a mental check-in, if you will.
Rachel Casey (00:15:37):
I mean, an hour is not very long, but in a busy day...
Rachel Casey (00:15:41):
It's still better to show up and get something.
Rachel Casey (00:15:45):
And rather than I think what you had said, like isolating.
Rachel Casey (00:15:49):
And that's common for, I think, a lot of alcoholics, especially in the beginning.
Rachel Casey (00:15:54):
The I don't want to be in the I want to be in the background,
Rachel Casey (00:15:57):
even though internally we really are like screaming for connection.
Rachel Casey (00:16:02):
But we're also in our head, like, please don't talk to me.
Rachel Casey (00:16:05):
Don't say I'm new.
Rachel Casey (00:16:06):
Don't introduce me.
Rachel Casey (00:16:07):
Like, I just want to be in and out.
Rachel Casey (00:16:08):
And there's a reason it's it helps.
Rachel Casey (00:16:12):
It just doesn't feel like it at first.
Rachel Casey (00:16:14):
It feels a little uncomfortable.
David McMenimen (00:16:15):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:16:16):
When I in the beginning,
David McMenimen (00:16:17):
when I went to meetings,
David McMenimen (00:16:18):
I thought everyone in the room was staring at me.
David McMenimen (00:16:20):
And it turns out they weren't, you know.
David McMenimen (00:16:23):
They could care less.
David McMenimen (00:16:24):
I'm going to get over that stuff along the way.
David McMenimen (00:16:26):
If I could just back up a bit about my 20 years of drinking, it wasn't all jackpots.
David McMenimen (00:16:32):
It wasn't all DUIs,
David McMenimen (00:16:34):
although I did that probably totaled about a half a dozen automobiles along the
David McMenimen (00:16:38):
way.
David McMenimen (00:16:38):
But there were nights,
David McMenimen (00:16:39):
like I said,
David McMenimen (00:16:39):
I could go out and have a few drinks,
David McMenimen (00:16:41):
get feeling good,
David McMenimen (00:16:43):
and go home without incident.
David McMenimen (00:16:45):
And then there were nights when I wanted to do that and,
David McMenimen (00:16:48):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:16:49):
I'd drink myself into a blackout or
David McMenimen (00:16:52):
you know, a jackpot and, um,
David McMenimen (00:16:55):
It wasn't until after I got sober I realized that I was just rolling the dice when
David McMenimen (00:17:00):
I picked up a drink.
David McMenimen (00:17:02):
I didn't know where it was going to take me.
David McMenimen (00:17:03):
That's still true today.
David McMenimen (00:17:05):
But there were, I can think of one red flag along the way.
David McMenimen (00:17:08):
In my first DUI, there was no drumbeat about drunk driving at that time.
David McMenimen (00:17:15):
This was like 1975.
David McMenimen (00:17:16):
They had to go to a, they called it a community alcohol safety program.
David McMenimen (00:17:21):
They had to take classes.
David McMenimen (00:17:23):
couple of nights a week and they made you look at your drinking and at that time
Rachel Casey (00:17:26):
they didn't recommend AA though right like now today if you get a DUI you're
Rachel Casey (00:17:30):
recommended but in 75 it wasn't recommended AA yet right
David McMenimen (00:17:35):
They suggested it, but they didn't make you go to any meetings.
David McMenimen (00:17:40):
But there were two things I remember.
David McMenimen (00:17:42):
One was it was a woman that ran the classes,
David McMenimen (00:17:45):
and she used to hand out a sheet of paper each week,
David McMenimen (00:17:48):
and you had to record your drinks.
David McMenimen (00:17:51):
And this was like just a regular 8 by 11 sheet of paper or nothing.
David McMenimen (00:17:57):
I knew guys I drank with who had had DUIs, and I showed that to them.
David McMenimen (00:18:01):
And they said,
David McMenimen (00:18:02):
start lying your ass off,
David McMenimen (00:18:03):
because the way you drink,
David McMenimen (00:18:05):
you'll be going to that meeting for the rest of your life.
David McMenimen (00:18:08):
And I could probably could have filled up about 20 pages with what I drank.
David McMenimen (00:18:12):
So I'd lie.
David McMenimen (00:18:14):
Oh, I only had two drinks this night.
David McMenimen (00:18:16):
I usually had two drinks in the first 15 minutes.
David McMenimen (00:18:20):
But the other thing that really,
David McMenimen (00:18:22):
when I think back at it,
David McMenimen (00:18:23):
she said,
David McMenimen (00:18:24):
if you're a blackout drinker,
David McMenimen (00:18:25):
you have a drinking problem.
David McMenimen (00:18:27):
And by then I had been blacking out, not every time I drank, like I said, but
David McMenimen (00:18:31):
I've been blacking out.
David McMenimen (00:18:33):
I knew I was a blackout drinker, but this was just her theory and didn't apply to me.
David McMenimen (00:18:39):
That didn't alter my drinking at all.
David McMenimen (00:18:41):
Eventually, I went back to drinking the way I had before, and then
David McMenimen (00:18:47):
My second DUI was like 1980 or something like that.
David McMenimen (00:18:51):
This time, I lost my license for a year.
David McMenimen (00:18:54):
I drove with a huddle license for a year.
David McMenimen (00:18:56):
Drove drunk.
Rachel Casey (00:18:58):
I love the honesty.
Rachel Casey (00:18:59):
You're like, they took it away, but the honesty is you didn't suffer the repercussion.
Rachel Casey (00:19:04):
You just, the risk of driving without a license.
David McMenimen (00:19:06):
Yeah, but the second DUI didn't get my attention as far as my drinking was concerned.
David McMenimen (00:19:10):
I just continued to drink the way I had.
David McMenimen (00:19:13):
And finally, in 84, that last night I drank.
David McMenimen (00:19:17):
that got my attention so those are a couple of red flags along the way that i
David McMenimen (00:19:22):
choose to ignore i chose to ignore at that time and uh yeah i mean every night and
David McMenimen (00:19:26):
like i said every night wasn't a blackout or passing out or making an ass out of
David McMenimen (00:19:30):
myself or a jackpot there was some nights you know i had fun drinking all i had fun
David McMenimen (00:19:36):
is that cliche it's fun fun with trouble and then at the end just trouble you know
Rachel Casey (00:19:42):
I would say,
Rachel Casey (00:19:43):
at least for me,
Rachel Casey (00:19:44):
I know it's not like I poured a drink and was like my goal was to black out.
Rachel Casey (00:19:52):
It was just the amount of alcohol that I would progressively start drinking and
Rachel Casey (00:19:56):
drinking and I would end up blacking out.
Rachel Casey (00:19:58):
But it's not that I intended to necessarily.
Rachel Casey (00:20:02):
Sometimes if I were like angry or celebrating some big accomplishment or,
Rachel Casey (00:20:07):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:20:08):
something tragic that happened.
Rachel Casey (00:20:09):
But I don't know that.
Rachel Casey (00:20:12):
It kind of gets away from you, you know, like if you were to tally your drinks.
Rachel Casey (00:20:17):
I mean,
Rachel Casey (00:20:17):
I was just thinking I'm like when I was drinking,
Rachel Casey (00:20:19):
I'd be like,
Rachel Casey (00:20:20):
go ahead and put five because I'm about to do five shots of Jameson to start off.
Rachel Casey (00:20:23):
So just go ahead.
Rachel Casey (00:20:24):
Don't bother picking up the pencil again and again.
Rachel Casey (00:20:27):
And also what counts as one, because my shot glasses were a rocks glass that were like.
Rachel Casey (00:20:35):
I didn't even know the one two fingers thing because until I got sober and I heard
Rachel Casey (00:20:40):
it on Mad Men,
Rachel Casey (00:20:41):
I think.
Rachel Casey (00:20:41):
And I was like, oh, that's what that means.
Rachel Casey (00:20:43):
I'm like, I went way above that.
Rachel Casey (00:20:44):
I'm like, keep going.
Rachel Casey (00:20:45):
Just don't don't get tired because I'll drink it faster than you can pour it.
Rachel Casey (00:20:50):
And I look at back now, I don't know how I lived, but I can't even imagine.
Rachel Casey (00:20:57):
I seriously can't even imagine drinking.
Rachel Casey (00:20:59):
I don't know.
Rachel Casey (00:21:00):
But again, it's the part of alcohol that once I take a sip,
Rachel Casey (00:21:09):
the alcohol's in control.
Rachel Casey (00:21:11):
It's, it has nothing to do with me anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:21:13):
Again,
Rachel Casey (00:21:14):
it can,
Rachel Casey (00:21:15):
if I try to say,
Rachel Casey (00:21:17):
I'm going to have just one drink tonight and I'm going to be calm after that first
Rachel Casey (00:21:21):
drink and sin,
Rachel Casey (00:21:22):
I'm like,
Rachel Casey (00:21:23):
what is two going to hurt?
Rachel Casey (00:21:24):
What's three going to hurt?
Rachel Casey (00:21:25):
Well, I'm already here.
Rachel Casey (00:21:26):
Let's just, there's no stop.
David McMenimen (00:21:28):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:21:30):
And I could sometimes contain myself.
Rachel Casey (00:21:35):
Like you said, not every night was a blackout.
Rachel Casey (00:21:36):
Like if I were in sports was a big thing in my life.
Rachel Casey (00:21:39):
I love sports and sports and drinking and sports bars just all with hand in hand.
David McMenimen (00:21:45):
Me too.
Rachel Casey (00:21:46):
And I'm so grateful.
Rachel Casey (00:21:48):
Like today, Dallas Stars plays tonight.
Rachel Casey (00:21:50):
And I love, love, love sports sober.
Rachel Casey (00:21:55):
It, you get to remember it.
Rachel Casey (00:21:57):
You get to feel the passion and,
Rachel Casey (00:22:00):
I was so numb because I was so focused and I would,
Rachel Casey (00:22:04):
I don't know if you did like the drinking games,
Rachel Casey (00:22:06):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:22:06):
oh,
Rachel Casey (00:22:06):
let's take a shot when they like score a goal or a big play happens.
Rachel Casey (00:22:11):
Like it was touchdown for Cowboys, just these big plays and it's shots, shots.
Rachel Casey (00:22:17):
And by the end of the game, I was like passed out.
Rachel Casey (00:22:19):
And now I can't imagine wanting to take away.
Rachel Casey (00:22:23):
I'm like, absolutely.
Rachel Casey (00:22:24):
I want to watch this game.
Rachel Casey (00:22:25):
I care about, I enjoy it so much more.
David McMenimen (00:22:29):
Today, I like watching games right where I'm sitting right now.
David McMenimen (00:22:33):
My TV's on the other side of the room.
David McMenimen (00:22:35):
I know I'll remember all the plays.
David McMenimen (00:22:38):
The line to the men's room is shorter.
Rachel Casey (00:22:41):
I don't want to even get up to get a soda because I don't want to miss like my
Rachel Casey (00:22:44):
husband will say,
Rachel Casey (00:22:45):
wait,
Rachel Casey (00:22:45):
we're going to wait till they do an ice change,
Rachel Casey (00:22:47):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:22:47):
till get drink refills or just like non-alcoholic,
Rachel Casey (00:22:51):
just water eat because it's we care about the sport.
Rachel Casey (00:22:54):
But if I was drinking and when I was drinking,
Rachel Casey (00:22:58):
the drinks were always the most important and making sure everyone had a refill or
Rachel Casey (00:23:01):
shot ready or we were playing some sort of a commonality to it's like the sport was
Rachel Casey (00:23:07):
second.
Rachel Casey (00:23:07):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:23:09):
uh, drinking was always first.
David McMenimen (00:23:11):
The sport was like a vehicle to get me to a bar or something to drink a lot of the time.
David McMenimen (00:23:16):
And I had,
David McMenimen (00:23:17):
I had like,
David McMenimen (00:23:18):
I Celtic season tickets back when John Hevlichek,
David McMenimen (00:23:21):
Dave Cowens played and went to a lot of games.
David McMenimen (00:23:24):
And sometimes I remember the game.
David McMenimen (00:23:26):
Sometimes I wouldn't.
David McMenimen (00:23:27):
And, um,
Rachel Casey (00:23:29):
I'd always get up early to go get another drink because I didn't want to wait for
Rachel Casey (00:23:33):
the long line.
Rachel Casey (00:23:34):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:23:36):
And, or that was my excuse again.
Rachel Casey (00:23:37):
I don't know.
Rachel Casey (00:23:38):
I don't think I really cared about the line.
Rachel Casey (00:23:40):
I think my truth was I wanted another drink and I can find like,
Rachel Casey (00:23:45):
Oh,
Rachel Casey (00:23:46):
well there's leave early,
Rachel Casey (00:23:48):
skip the line,
Rachel Casey (00:23:49):
get ahead of the crowd.
Rachel Casey (00:23:50):
And the reality was I just wanted more alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:23:56):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:23:56):
And I don't, I'm again,
Rachel Casey (00:23:59):
beyond every time sports come up i'm like i can't imagine wanting to go back to
David McMenimen (00:24:06):
that life i don't miss it at all i don't miss anything about my drinking life like
David McMenimen (00:24:11):
i said but i thought i would i thought i might initially but
David McMenimen (00:24:16):
I just like waking up sober every morning and clear-headed and not wondering what I
David McMenimen (00:24:22):
did last night or if I'd passed out or blacked out or stepped on somebody's toes or
David McMenimen (00:24:27):
insulted somebody.
David McMenimen (00:24:28):
And we were talking about recording drinks and...
David McMenimen (00:24:32):
When I was nine months sober,
David McMenimen (00:24:33):
I had to go to a,
David McMenimen (00:24:35):
because it was the third DUI,
David McMenimen (00:24:36):
I had to go to a state-ordered program.
David McMenimen (00:24:39):
It was out like in central Massachusetts, and it was a residential program.
David McMenimen (00:24:43):
You had to go there for two weeks, and there were about 200 people in there.
David McMenimen (00:24:46):
Everyone was a repeat offender like I was.
David McMenimen (00:24:49):
There were like 14 counselors, and I counted 11 of them were in AA.
David McMenimen (00:24:55):
It was all AA all day long.
David McMenimen (00:24:57):
We took classes, and everyone was assigned an individual counselor, and
David McMenimen (00:25:02):
I got assigned a woman who wasn't an AA, and she started asking me questions.
David McMenimen (00:25:07):
She didn't understand why I couldn't remember how much I drank in the course of a
David McMenimen (00:25:12):
night,
David McMenimen (00:25:12):
how many drinks I had.
David McMenimen (00:25:14):
Finally, I said, I'm an alcoholic.
David McMenimen (00:25:16):
I don't count drinks.
David McMenimen (00:25:17):
I just start drinking, and I don't stop.
David McMenimen (00:25:20):
Out of the 200 people that were there,
David McMenimen (00:25:21):
and it was mostly men but some women,
David McMenimen (00:25:25):
I bet 150 of them had no intention of getting sober from what I saw.
David McMenimen (00:25:32):
And I'm glad I was nine months sober when I went there and that I had had a
David McMenimen (00:25:39):
background in AA because I made the most of it.
David McMenimen (00:25:42):
I didn't like it.
David McMenimen (00:25:43):
You know, I had to take two weeks vacation.
David McMenimen (00:25:45):
I had to pay to go there.
David McMenimen (00:25:47):
But I got the most out of it.
David McMenimen (00:25:49):
And if I was drinking like some of those other people were,
David McMenimen (00:25:52):
it just would have gone in one ear and out the other ear.
Rachel Casey (00:25:56):
And honestly, that's another really good point in early sobriety too.
Rachel Casey (00:26:02):
Another recommendation I was given is not all meetings are equal and some are
Rachel Casey (00:26:12):
better than others,
Rachel Casey (00:26:13):
but it also might be me that it could be two identical meetings on two different
Rachel Casey (00:26:20):
days and I can take it either as
Rachel Casey (00:26:25):
I got nothing and the even identical meeting, identical topic.
Rachel Casey (00:26:31):
The other one, the other day it hits home.
Rachel Casey (00:26:34):
And sometimes it just takes like,
Rachel Casey (00:26:36):
I don't love the like through osmosis metaphor,
Rachel Casey (00:26:39):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:26:40):
like if you just sit there,
Rachel Casey (00:26:41):
but I always do believe that if you continuously keep going to meetings and
Rachel Casey (00:26:49):
Eventually, if you're alcoholic like I am, something will hit you at the time it's supposed to.
Rachel Casey (00:26:57):
And you might have already heard it and been like,
Rachel Casey (00:26:59):
oh,
Rachel Casey (00:26:59):
that doesn't really relate to me because of the attitude or how you're hearing it
Rachel Casey (00:27:03):
that day.
Rachel Casey (00:27:04):
Eventually, you're like, oh, wait.
Rachel Casey (00:27:06):
And it clicks.
Rachel Casey (00:27:07):
And it's amazing when you do hear your story.
Rachel Casey (00:27:11):
And it's then the ripple effect happens of you start to see the relatability and
Rachel Casey (00:27:18):
even the stories you don't relate to.
David McMenimen (00:27:20):
But the trick to all that is you have to go to meetings to hear that.
David McMenimen (00:27:25):
You do.
David McMenimen (00:27:26):
I wasn't going to hear it at home, walking down the street at work.
David McMenimen (00:27:31):
Definitely wasn't going to hear it in the bar rooms.
David McMenimen (00:27:33):
I drank in, that's for sure.
David McMenimen (00:27:35):
But even that night when that guy said,
David McMenimen (00:27:37):
if you can no longer drink in safety,
David McMenimen (00:27:39):
you're an alcoholic.
David McMenimen (00:27:40):
Like I said,
David McMenimen (00:27:41):
I don't doubt for two seconds that that had been said at other meetings that I went
David McMenimen (00:27:46):
to.
David McMenimen (00:27:46):
But this one night, my ears were wide open.
David McMenimen (00:27:50):
I don't even know who the guy was.
David McMenimen (00:27:52):
I don't think I've seen him since, but it stuck with me.
David McMenimen (00:27:55):
I remember going to a meeting and it was a woman who was a lot younger than I was
David McMenimen (00:28:00):
saying that when she was drinking,
David McMenimen (00:28:02):
self-pity was like a warm bath.
David McMenimen (00:28:05):
And man,
David McMenimen (00:28:05):
could I identify with that because I love to feel sorry for myself and blame other
David McMenimen (00:28:11):
people.
David McMenimen (00:28:12):
That was another thing at that step meeting they impressed on us was take the word
David McMenimen (00:28:16):
blame out of your vocabulary.
David McMenimen (00:28:18):
Don't blame people for your drinking problem and the trouble you got yourself into.
David McMenimen (00:28:22):
And then when you were talking about going to different meetings and hearing
David McMenimen (00:28:25):
things,
David McMenimen (00:28:26):
there was a guy I used to talk to all the time.
David McMenimen (00:28:28):
I almost used him like a sponsor, but he said, I don't want to be your sponsor.
David McMenimen (00:28:33):
Call me as a friend, but...
David McMenimen (00:28:35):
He used to speak at a lot of meetings,
David McMenimen (00:28:36):
and I said to him,
David McMenimen (00:28:38):
I'm gun-shy about raising my hand at a meeting and speaking.
David McMenimen (00:28:41):
You know, you're not.
David McMenimen (00:28:43):
And he said to him,
David McMenimen (00:28:44):
when you go to a meeting,
David McMenimen (00:28:45):
you look around the room,
David McMenimen (00:28:46):
and you see people sitting in the room,
David McMenimen (00:28:49):
you just know are going to raise their hand.
David McMenimen (00:28:52):
and talk about what they want to talk about.
David McMenimen (00:28:54):
And I said, yeah, pretty much every meeting I go to, he said, get your hand up before they do.
David McMenimen (00:29:00):
He said, and even if they get the hand up before you do, talk about what you want to talk about.
David McMenimen (00:29:05):
Get the meeting going your way.
David McMenimen (00:29:06):
And that's something I try to practice.
David McMenimen (00:29:09):
I don't do it at every meeting.
David McMenimen (00:29:11):
And then when I do go to a meeting,
David McMenimen (00:29:13):
if I don't hear something earth shattering or hear a lot of wisdom,
David McMenimen (00:29:17):
I also have to look at
David McMenimen (00:29:19):
Did I raise my hand?
David McMenimen (00:29:20):
What part did I play in it?
David McMenimen (00:29:22):
I can raise my hand just like anyone else can and talk about what I want to talk about.
David McMenimen (00:29:29):
Another guy told me,
David McMenimen (00:29:31):
you can talk about whatever you want to talk about at a 12-step meeting,
David McMenimen (00:29:35):
but always bring it back to alcohol.
David McMenimen (00:29:38):
Always bring it back.
David McMenimen (00:29:39):
And then don't sing the blues.
David McMenimen (00:29:41):
He said, are you happy to be sober?
David McMenimen (00:29:43):
And I said, yeah, I'm thrilled.
David McMenimen (00:29:44):
He said, don't sing the blues.
David McMenimen (00:29:47):
And not everybody does that.
Rachel Casey (00:29:49):
And that's where the step meetings is something I found I enjoyed a lot more.
Rachel Casey (00:29:54):
It's all about where you're at in your sobriety.
Rachel Casey (00:29:56):
And I don't think one meeting is better than another necessarily.
Rachel Casey (00:30:02):
It's all about where I'm at.
Rachel Casey (00:30:05):
After I worked the 12 steps...
Rachel Casey (00:30:07):
My shares were very different because now it was more of my responsibility to carry
Rachel Casey (00:30:13):
the message that we do recover,
Rachel Casey (00:30:16):
wherein when I was working steps,
Rachel Casey (00:30:18):
when I shared,
Rachel Casey (00:30:19):
I probably shared more towards the struggle.
Rachel Casey (00:30:22):
But I always tried to stay in gratitude in my shares.
Rachel Casey (00:30:25):
Like I don't there was but I also in my sobriety,
Rachel Casey (00:30:27):
there was never a point where I was like,
Rachel Casey (00:30:30):
this sucks.
Rachel Casey (00:30:31):
it felt like you said, even in the beginning, just side effects alone.
Rachel Casey (00:30:35):
If you start feeling like you're not hungover, like to be less serious or not.
Rachel Casey (00:30:42):
And it's what part do I play?
Rachel Casey (00:30:45):
But I always try to, when I have shared at meetings, it's, I'm sharing my mess.
Rachel Casey (00:30:51):
Like that it's work for working steps.
Rachel Casey (00:30:57):
I struggled too.
Rachel Casey (00:30:59):
But my job is to,
Rachel Casey (00:31:02):
The 12th step in my share.
Rachel Casey (00:31:05):
And that's kind of what the topic is supposed to be built on.
Rachel Casey (00:31:07):
In discussions of each person's viewpoint.
Rachel Casey (00:31:10):
Because everyone's different.
Rachel Casey (00:31:11):
Like I didn't get a DUI.
Rachel Casey (00:31:14):
But I can 100% relate with your story.
Rachel Casey (00:31:17):
Because there are plenty of times I should have.
Rachel Casey (00:31:20):
Plenty.
Rachel Casey (00:31:21):
And thankfully, I was pretty good about giving up my keys.
Rachel Casey (00:31:26):
I didn't really fight people to drink and drive.
Rachel Casey (00:31:29):
I'd rather not drive.
Rachel Casey (00:31:30):
And maybe that's the benefit of being a woman.
Rachel Casey (00:31:33):
But I was just like, I want to be driven.
Rachel Casey (00:31:35):
But I relate with the times that I have.
Rachel Casey (00:31:41):
And I've seen like I could have easily been pulled over.
Rachel Casey (00:31:48):
I think that's another thing in sobriety is you learn how to identify versus isolate.
Rachel Casey (00:31:54):
You find the similarities.
Rachel Casey (00:31:56):
I'm no longer looking for the differences like I used to.
David McMenimen (00:32:00):
But no two stories are the same.
David McMenimen (00:32:02):
And I think it's just, it's what alcohol does to you, you know.
David McMenimen (00:32:08):
And if you come into a sobriety meeting,
David McMenimen (00:32:10):
it's a good chance alcohol hasn't served you well in some capacity.
David McMenimen (00:32:15):
It's probably alcohol's,
David McMenimen (00:32:17):
you probably thought you could handle alcohol,
David McMenimen (00:32:19):
but alcohol has handled you.
David McMenimen (00:32:20):
Going back to, you know, raising your hand and speaking at meetings, I follow Chris Herron.
David McMenimen (00:32:25):
I don't know if you know, he is the basketball player.
David McMenimen (00:32:28):
Played in the NBA.
David McMenimen (00:32:29):
He's devoted his life to sobriety.
David McMenimen (00:32:32):
But he said when he first got sober, he went to meetings and he wasn't speaking.
David McMenimen (00:32:36):
And a woman older than him came up to him and stood in front of him and said,
David McMenimen (00:32:43):
open your mouth to save your ass.
David McMenimen (00:32:46):
We can't help you if we don't know you.
David McMenimen (00:32:48):
And I think that's the truth.
David McMenimen (00:32:50):
You have to let somebody know what's going on with you, I think.
David McMenimen (00:32:54):
At least I did anyway.
Rachel Casey (00:32:55):
You also might have something important.
Rachel Casey (00:32:57):
Like I still am a firm believer that people with some of the least amount of
Rachel Casey (00:33:02):
sobriety think that they have nothing to contribute in a meeting.
Rachel Casey (00:33:04):
They're like, I don't know.
Rachel Casey (00:33:05):
That is the gold.
Rachel Casey (00:33:07):
That is where alcoholics like me,
Rachel Casey (00:33:10):
I can't speak for you,
Rachel Casey (00:33:11):
but I'm sure you would say the same that it's like it takes me back to remind
Rachel Casey (00:33:16):
myself how it used to be like because we get time and space from our last drink.
Rachel Casey (00:33:23):
And I am thankful I ingrained how miserable I was in a meeting when someone's not
Rachel Casey (00:33:30):
doing the carrying the message part because you're not working the steps.
Rachel Casey (00:33:35):
You're helping everyone else in the room by sharing because you're reminding us of
Rachel Casey (00:33:39):
when we were first new in the rooms.
Rachel Casey (00:33:42):
And we can tell you what worked for us.
Rachel Casey (00:33:45):
Again, it's all just experience.
Rachel Casey (00:33:48):
And by the time,
Rachel Casey (00:33:49):
hopefully,
Rachel Casey (00:33:49):
that that person shares that's new,
Rachel Casey (00:33:52):
you get quite a few different shares that hopefully one spoke to you.
Rachel Casey (00:33:59):
Because it's all different.
Rachel Casey (00:34:01):
There are all types of drinkers.
Rachel Casey (00:34:03):
Mm-hmm.
Rachel Casey (00:34:05):
But yeah, you're right.
Rachel Casey (00:34:06):
We won't, you can't know if you don't share.
Rachel Casey (00:34:08):
And like I said,
Rachel Casey (00:34:09):
really,
Rachel Casey (00:34:09):
honestly,
Rachel Casey (00:34:11):
you probably have the most valuable information to share if you're new.
Rachel Casey (00:34:16):
I've heard wisdom from newcomers that old timers just don't hit because it's been
Rachel Casey (00:34:23):
there in this gratitude mode and I might not be in gratitude mode right now.
Rachel Casey (00:34:27):
I'm in like, my life just got rocked.
Rachel Casey (00:34:30):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:34:31):
Like,
Rachel Casey (00:34:33):
So if you're listening, that's you.
Rachel Casey (00:34:34):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:34:35):
It's honestly, you are doing a service for you and everyone else.
David McMenimen (00:34:43):
And it's,
David McMenimen (00:34:44):
I think it's daunting to go to 12 step meetings in the beginning anyway,
David McMenimen (00:34:48):
at least it was for me.
David McMenimen (00:34:49):
Um,
David McMenimen (00:34:53):
I haven't seen anyone yet who goes to their first 12-step or a sobriety meeting and
David McMenimen (00:35:00):
afterwards rubs their hands together and say,
David McMenimen (00:35:02):
boy,
David McMenimen (00:35:02):
I'm really looking forward to a lifetime of this,
David McMenimen (00:35:04):
right?
Rachel Casey (00:35:07):
No, you usually... I remember what happened here in my experience.
Rachel Casey (00:35:13):
And mine might be just a tad different because...
Rachel Casey (00:35:16):
My husband and I did get sober same day and we were at the same meeting,
Rachel Casey (00:35:21):
same back of the corner.
Rachel Casey (00:35:22):
And so I kind of did have a side pick.
Rachel Casey (00:35:24):
I wasn't all by myself.
Rachel Casey (00:35:26):
Hearing that we were new.
Rachel Casey (00:35:30):
Everyone came up to us after, keep coming back, gave us a schedule of the meetings.
Rachel Casey (00:35:34):
I mean, we got a newcomer packet and it was a very big meeting that night.
Rachel Casey (00:35:38):
Oh, not huge.
Rachel Casey (00:35:39):
It was like 40 people.
Rachel Casey (00:35:41):
So,
Rachel Casey (00:35:41):
I mean,
Rachel Casey (00:35:41):
we got a good packet of phone numbers,
Rachel Casey (00:35:44):
which we were like,
Rachel Casey (00:35:45):
we will never,
Rachel Casey (00:35:46):
ever call them.
Rachel Casey (00:35:48):
And I have that packet still,
Rachel Casey (00:35:50):
and I don't think I got any phone numbers from the packet,
Rachel Casey (00:35:53):
but I can tell you I have every person on that packet's phone number just because I
Rachel Casey (00:35:57):
went there every day,
Rachel Casey (00:35:59):
multiple times a day.
Rachel Casey (00:36:00):
And I keep my newcomer packet just because it's now sent.
Rachel Casey (00:36:05):
It's like my desire chip.
Rachel Casey (00:36:06):
It's my special memory of a day that, like, my world changed.
Rachel Casey (00:36:13):
But when we left, I...
Rachel Casey (00:36:15):
could have thrown that in the trash to be honest I was like I'm never ever calling
Rachel Casey (00:36:20):
any of these people or one of them said text me on the side I was like they don't
Rachel Casey (00:36:24):
mean it like they don't want to hear it they're just writing that because they have
Rachel Casey (00:36:27):
to or I also thought the person chairing was like in charge like
Rachel Casey (00:36:34):
Cause they had this binder and I'm like, okay.
Rachel Casey (00:36:38):
And that's why we sat in the back, but you learn that it's the whole room.
Rachel Casey (00:36:42):
Like it's not even, it wasn't like a speaker meeting or anything.
Rachel Casey (00:36:45):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:36:46):
Uh,
Rachel Casey (00:36:49):
It's just, it's wild your first time versus like going in there like it's your second home.
David McMenimen (00:36:54):
I mean,
David McMenimen (00:36:55):
obviously I've been sober a long time,
David McMenimen (00:36:57):
but I think back fondly on those days of early sobriety.
David McMenimen (00:37:02):
I remember a guy saying, and he's still around today, I still see him at meetings.
David McMenimen (00:37:06):
He said, you'll never have to pick up a drink again.
David McMenimen (00:37:09):
But what he also used to say is you'll never have to get sober again.
David McMenimen (00:37:13):
And that really resonated with me because I don't want to have to get sober again.
David McMenimen (00:37:17):
I remember what it was like.
David McMenimen (00:37:19):
early sobriety.
David McMenimen (00:37:21):
He also said, if your head's racing 100 miles an hour, you've come to the right place.
David McMenimen (00:37:27):
And I remember saying, this is going to be great.
David McMenimen (00:37:30):
They're going to get me sober.
David McMenimen (00:37:31):
And then my head always races.
David McMenimen (00:37:34):
My head will shut off.
David McMenimen (00:37:35):
I did get sober,
David McMenimen (00:37:36):
but after 40 years of sobriety,
David McMenimen (00:37:39):
I'd like to tell you my head shut off,
David McMenimen (00:37:40):
but it's not.
David McMenimen (00:37:41):
I tried meditation and tried reading the Bible and tried other stuff.
David McMenimen (00:37:46):
And now
David McMenimen (00:37:46):
What works for me is when my head races,
David McMenimen (00:37:48):
and it races all the time,
David McMenimen (00:37:50):
I just let it go wherever it wants to go.
David McMenimen (00:37:52):
And thankfully,
David McMenimen (00:37:53):
I don't act out on all other things I think about,
David McMenimen (00:37:57):
because if I did,
David McMenimen (00:37:57):
I'd be dead,
David McMenimen (00:37:58):
or I'd be in prison,
David McMenimen (00:37:59):
or be in a locked ward somewhere.
David McMenimen (00:38:01):
So I just...
David McMenimen (00:38:03):
And eventually, sometimes it slows down, you know, and sometimes I can meditate, not by design.
David McMenimen (00:38:10):
Sometimes I just, it shuts off and I'm okay for a little while.
David McMenimen (00:38:14):
I thought I was alone.
David McMenimen (00:38:15):
I mean,
David McMenimen (00:38:15):
I really thought nobody's head races like mine does,
David McMenimen (00:38:19):
but more and more people say,
David McMenimen (00:38:21):
yep,
David McMenimen (00:38:22):
my head is noisy.
David McMenimen (00:38:23):
It doesn't shut off.
Rachel Casey (00:38:25):
A hundred.
Rachel Casey (00:38:25):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:38:26):
My sobriety date, you know, June 30th in 1984.
David McMenimen (00:38:29):
That's when I started the rest of my life.
David McMenimen (00:38:32):
You know, I've been sober over half, half my life.
David McMenimen (00:38:35):
I'm going to be 77 on the 26th of May.
David McMenimen (00:38:38):
So I've been sober over half my life and, um,
Rachel Casey (00:38:42):
I was looking for those who can do math.
David McMenimen (00:38:43):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:38:44):
You know, I wouldn't have it any other way, you know.
David McMenimen (00:38:48):
I mean, I should be dead for some of the stuff I pulled while I was drinking.
David McMenimen (00:38:53):
And sobriety and 12 steps saved my life.
David McMenimen (00:38:56):
One thing I learned is meetings around here,
David McMenimen (00:38:58):
I'm sure they do it in other places,
David McMenimen (00:38:59):
they describe the disease.
David McMenimen (00:39:01):
And it's threefold.
David McMenimen (00:39:02):
It's physical, mental, and spiritual.
David McMenimen (00:39:05):
And
Rachel Casey (00:39:06):
That's the three sides of the triangle,
Rachel Casey (00:39:08):
and that's what each of the words on the triangle stand for.
David McMenimen (00:39:11):
I've heard people say it.
David McMenimen (00:39:12):
I'm wired differently to this day.
David McMenimen (00:39:15):
I don't know what it is, but when I pick up a drink, I can't stop drinking.
David McMenimen (00:39:20):
It sets off a physical compulsion,
David McMenimen (00:39:22):
and maybe somebody could examine me someday to find out why I'm that way,
David McMenimen (00:39:28):
but it's a moot point with me today.
David McMenimen (00:39:31):
I can't drink in safety.
David McMenimen (00:39:36):
identify as an alcoholic it was like now what am I going to do about it
David McMenimen (00:39:42):
Now that I've counted myself in,
David McMenimen (00:39:44):
am I going to white buckle it,
David McMenimen (00:39:45):
sit on the edge of my seat and say,
David McMenimen (00:39:47):
like you say,
David McMenimen (00:39:48):
oh,
David McMenimen (00:39:48):
sobriety sucks.
David McMenimen (00:39:49):
I've never said that.
David McMenimen (00:39:50):
Or am I going to go to step meetings and take a look at myself and try to do
David McMenimen (00:39:55):
something about the other things that were wrong with me?
David McMenimen (00:39:58):
And that's what I've done.
David McMenimen (00:40:00):
You know,
David McMenimen (00:40:00):
that's why when you talk about gratitude,
David McMenimen (00:40:02):
I'm grateful every day that I wake up sober and I know that I'm an alcoholic and
David McMenimen (00:40:07):
there are programs like
David McMenimen (00:40:09):
12 step and there's another sobriety platform i go to and um the other thing is
David McMenimen (00:40:15):
i've learned this there are other paths to recovery to sobriety besides 12 step i
David McMenimen (00:40:19):
mean this is a platform here the silver banter and there's a pretty big uh recovery
David McMenimen (00:40:26):
community here in marblehead where i live there's meetings all day long if you want
David McMenimen (00:40:30):
to look for them and um
David McMenimen (00:40:32):
I always say I can't go far in this town without seeing somebody that's in AA,
David McMenimen (00:40:37):
used to be in AA or should be in AA.
David McMenimen (00:40:39):
But when I see somebody that's in AA,
David McMenimen (00:40:43):
I always say,
David McMenimen (00:40:44):
even if we talk for 15 minutes,
David McMenimen (00:40:45):
I say,
David McMenimen (00:40:46):
this counts as a meeting on my meeting scorecard.
David McMenimen (00:40:49):
Oh, it takes just two people to have a meeting.
David McMenimen (00:40:54):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:40:54):
I mean, I'm just glad I'm sober.
David McMenimen (00:40:56):
You know, I've seen my daughter graduate from high school, from college.
David McMenimen (00:40:59):
She got married back in March and, you know, there was an open bar.
David McMenimen (00:41:04):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:41:04):
I mean, she drinks, not like I did.
David McMenimen (00:41:06):
And, you know, there was a fair amount of booze there.
David McMenimen (00:41:09):
People were drinking.
David McMenimen (00:41:10):
I didn't drink.
David McMenimen (00:41:11):
I didn't feel like drinking.
David McMenimen (00:41:12):
It was a fun time because I was sober.
David McMenimen (00:41:15):
You know, she got married up in Vermont and
David McMenimen (00:41:18):
It was really nice.
Rachel Casey (00:41:19):
Weddings are great sober.
Rachel Casey (00:41:20):
Another thing I was like, how am I ever?
Rachel Casey (00:41:23):
Because I was the kind of person that if I didn't hear that there was an open bar,
Rachel Casey (00:41:26):
I was like,
Rachel Casey (00:41:27):
well,
Rachel Casey (00:41:28):
I had a hairbrush that you could pour alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:41:32):
So I would bring my Jameson hairbrush to be like,
Rachel Casey (00:41:35):
I'm not going to any wedding without drinking unless I was pregnant.
Rachel Casey (00:41:39):
When I was pregnant with Evan, that was one of the things that validated it to me that I
Rachel Casey (00:41:45):
i never drank when i was pregnant once i knew actually that's that would be a lie
Rachel Casey (00:41:50):
if i say that because even the night i found out i was pregnant it was not a good
Rachel Casey (00:41:56):
time we did not we were not trying this was a very big accident i mean colin and i
Rachel Casey (00:42:01):
had been together for like four years and we were living together not married
Rachel Casey (00:42:06):
though not engaged and after i found out drunk super drunk found out i was pregnant
Rachel Casey (00:42:12):
peed on like five sticks
Rachel Casey (00:42:14):
Pretended like,
Rachel Casey (00:42:15):
well,
Rachel Casey (00:42:16):
what if I hadn't found out till tomorrow and still went out to the bar and got
Rachel Casey (00:42:19):
hammered over it?
Rachel Casey (00:42:20):
I was like, this will be my last hurrah.
Rachel Casey (00:42:22):
And I never had a drink after that in pregnancy because I knew even with the women
Rachel Casey (00:42:28):
today that'll say you can have like a glass of wine or whatever.
Rachel Casey (00:42:32):
whatever the thankfully I had a doctor that like was pretty big on no amount of
Rachel Casey (00:42:37):
alcohol is safe for a baby but I knew I couldn't just have one I never just wanted
Rachel Casey (00:42:43):
one glass even in pregnancy I was like that I don't want to just have one and then
Rachel Casey (00:42:49):
I'll crave more and then I'm pregnant and I don't I think my inner core knew
Rachel Casey (00:42:56):
that that was really probably my first big sign that I had a problem with alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:43:03):
But that's not when I got sober.
Rachel Casey (00:43:05):
I got sober years later.
Rachel Casey (00:43:06):
He was two.
Rachel Casey (00:43:07):
So my son technically has seen me drink a lot.
Rachel Casey (00:43:09):
But I hope he won't remember it.
David McMenimen (00:43:15):
How many children do you have?
Rachel Casey (00:43:17):
One.
David McMenimen (00:43:18):
One, yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:43:19):
Again, it wasn't planned.
Rachel Casey (00:43:23):
And I mean, once we got sober...
Rachel Casey (00:43:26):
That was our second full-time job, as you had said.
Rachel Casey (00:43:29):
So now we had like three full-time jobs.
Rachel Casey (00:43:32):
We had money job, recovery job, parent job.
Rachel Casey (00:43:38):
So how many years sober were you when you had your daughter?
David McMenimen (00:43:41):
About five years.
David McMenimen (00:43:49):
I say this at meetings,
David McMenimen (00:43:50):
but when I'm saying I was an introvert,
David McMenimen (00:43:53):
I couldn't talk to anybody before I got sober.
David McMenimen (00:43:56):
Even in sobriety, I was locked up inside myself.
David McMenimen (00:44:03):
Especially, I couldn't talk to women for whatever reason.
David McMenimen (00:44:06):
I just couldn't.
David McMenimen (00:44:07):
I was thinking about that today.
David McMenimen (00:44:11):
I met my wife in a sobriety platform.
David McMenimen (00:44:13):
She's not an alcoholic, but in a sobriety platform.
Rachel Casey (00:44:16):
I was going to say, did you just go hang out around the Al-Anon room?
Rachel Casey (00:44:20):
No.
Rachel Casey (00:44:20):
I'm just kidding.
David McMenimen (00:44:23):
But anyway, we get married.
David McMenimen (00:44:25):
We just celebrated our 36th anniversary a couple of weeks ago.
Rachel Casey (00:44:29):
Congratulations.
David McMenimen (00:44:30):
Thanks.
David McMenimen (00:44:30):
Wow.
Rachel Casey (00:44:31):
You got a lot of milestones, right?
Rachel Casey (00:44:32):
Yeah, this time of year.
Rachel Casey (00:44:33):
This is the time to be alive.
David McMenimen (00:44:35):
A lot of milestones for me.
David McMenimen (00:44:37):
It's amazing.
David McMenimen (00:44:39):
But I always say that,
David McMenimen (00:44:41):
so we get married in May,
David McMenimen (00:44:44):
and my daughter was born in November,
David McMenimen (00:44:46):
so you can do the math.
David McMenimen (00:44:48):
And so I went from not being able to talk to women,
David McMenimen (00:44:53):
and now I'm going to be living with two of them for the rest of my life.
Rachel Casey (00:44:58):
Now you're outnumbered.
David McMenimen (00:44:59):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:45:01):
It's okay.
David McMenimen (00:45:01):
It's...
David McMenimen (00:45:03):
I remember about six months before I got married, I bought a condo in Salem, Massachusetts.
David McMenimen (00:45:10):
It was the first time I'd ever saved enough money to buy property and
David McMenimen (00:45:15):
I was single at the time, and it was a one-bedroom condo.
David McMenimen (00:45:18):
It was a nice place.
David McMenimen (00:45:20):
I was really looking forward to living there by myself for a while,
David McMenimen (00:45:23):
and then,
David McMenimen (00:45:24):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:45:24):
we get married,
David McMenimen (00:45:25):
and my wife moved in,
David McMenimen (00:45:26):
and that worked out okay,
David McMenimen (00:45:27):
too.
David McMenimen (00:45:27):
But it's one of those things I look back on.
David McMenimen (00:45:29):
Yeah,
David McMenimen (00:45:30):
I mean,
David McMenimen (00:45:30):
sobriety saved my life,
David McMenimen (00:45:32):
and I should be dead,
David McMenimen (00:45:33):
like I said,
David McMenimen (00:45:34):
a couple of times over,
David McMenimen (00:45:35):
and I'm
David McMenimen (00:45:36):
One of the platforms I did find,
David McMenimen (00:45:38):
I don't know if you've heard of it,
David McMenimen (00:45:39):
it's called The Luckiest Club.
David McMenimen (00:45:41):
But you had, on one of these interviews, you had Alison Duraney.
Rachel Casey (00:45:46):
Mm-hmm.
David McMenimen (00:45:48):
Allison and I have friends.
David McMenimen (00:45:49):
I met her in the luckiest club,
David McMenimen (00:45:53):
and I either see her or,
David McMenimen (00:45:55):
matter of fact,
David McMenimen (00:45:56):
I'll see her in a Zoom meeting tomorrow.
David McMenimen (00:45:58):
She's a moderator,
David McMenimen (00:45:59):
but one of those people I didn't know that I met along the way,
David McMenimen (00:46:01):
and I'm grateful for our friendship.
Rachel Casey (00:46:06):
She's a good person.
Rachel Casey (00:46:07):
She has good sobriety, too, and
David McMenimen (00:46:10):
She's on with another woman.
David McMenimen (00:46:12):
Is it Julie Fontes?
Rachel Casey (00:46:15):
I love Julie.
Rachel Casey (00:46:16):
Julie Fontes.
David McMenimen (00:46:17):
I think they were on together.
Rachel Casey (00:46:19):
Oh, my God.
Rachel Casey (00:46:19):
Julie... So, Julie was my very first interview on Sober Banter.
David McMenimen (00:46:24):
Oh, really?
David McMenimen (00:46:25):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:46:25):
I was so nervous and...
Rachel Casey (00:46:28):
she is literally just the sweetest person actually yeah i had both julie and
Rachel Casey (00:46:32):
allison on an episode of sober banter so that was such such fun i have i've been
Rachel Casey (00:46:38):
dealing with long covid since about a year sober and it sucks because there is
Rachel Casey (00:46:45):
nothing worse i was feeling the best ever and
Rachel Casey (00:46:49):
To now, my body is infected with this other disease.
Rachel Casey (00:46:54):
The only thing that I can compare it to,
Rachel Casey (00:46:57):
like you said,
Rachel Casey (00:46:57):
is had I not been sober and got this,
Rachel Casey (00:47:02):
I would have died.
Rachel Casey (00:47:03):
I don't think I'd be alive because my body is like...
Rachel Casey (00:47:06):
barely hanging on right now without the alcohol.
Rachel Casey (00:47:10):
And they can't figure out quite what's causing it.
Rachel Casey (00:47:13):
So it's one day at a time.
Rachel Casey (00:47:15):
And sobriety has kind of saved my life and autoimmune wise too,
Rachel Casey (00:47:18):
because a lot of those same principles of how I got sober,
Rachel Casey (00:47:22):
I use with having a mystery illness.
Rachel Casey (00:47:25):
It's like, well, for today, I'm just going to try and live for today.
Rachel Casey (00:47:31):
And we're going to wake up tomorrow and see where we're at tomorrow.
Rachel Casey (00:47:34):
All I know is I don't want to drink.
Rachel Casey (00:47:35):
Exactly.
David McMenimen (00:47:37):
So that's what it's all about.
Rachel Casey (00:47:41):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:47:41):
And it's about showing up too, about doing things.
Rachel Casey (00:47:47):
And sometimes it does.
Rachel Casey (00:47:48):
And I'm not here to lie.
Rachel Casey (00:47:50):
Like the whole point of this platform is to be brutal honesty of laughing about,
Rachel Casey (00:47:55):
I don't want to go to a meeting or I don't want to.
Rachel Casey (00:47:58):
And I think the best ones are the ones that I actually didn't want to go to.
Rachel Casey (00:48:03):
And I say that every time that I'm like, man, I needed that so much more than I knew.
Rachel Casey (00:48:09):
And it really, I used to use the quote, get the body there and the mind will follow.
Rachel Casey (00:48:13):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:48:15):
So and as an alcoholic,
Rachel Casey (00:48:17):
it's like even with X amount of years in sobriety,
Rachel Casey (00:48:20):
there are still things I think we all just don't want to do.
Rachel Casey (00:48:24):
I just don't drink over it anymore.
Rachel Casey (00:48:26):
And I have to learn to.
Rachel Casey (00:48:29):
It's a dubious luxury.
Rachel Casey (00:48:30):
That's what Bill says.
Rachel Casey (00:48:32):
You know, that dubious luxury I cannot have is I don't get to get angry at the world.
Rachel Casey (00:48:36):
I have to like actually fix it.
Rachel Casey (00:48:37):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:48:38):
Because the resentment is what will kill me and make me want to go to a drink.
Rachel Casey (00:48:43):
So it's like, I wish I had that dubious luxury to just be mad at the world, but I can't.
David McMenimen (00:48:48):
I'm the same way.
David McMenimen (00:48:49):
Like I can go to a live meeting and I get on there all charged up.
David McMenimen (00:48:53):
I'm going to hear some words of wisdom and I get on in the meeting and it sucks.
David McMenimen (00:48:59):
It doesn't do anything for me.
David McMenimen (00:49:00):
That's when I have to look at myself.
David McMenimen (00:49:01):
You know, why didn't I raise my hand and say something?
David McMenimen (00:49:04):
But at the same time,
David McMenimen (00:49:05):
I can go to some meeting and,
David McMenimen (00:49:07):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:49:07):
I don't feel like driving down there tonight or today.
David McMenimen (00:49:12):
Same people, same shit, you know.
David McMenimen (00:49:16):
But then I hear something from somebody and I take her with me.
David McMenimen (00:49:21):
And one-liners stick with me more than a lot of the psychobabble and the dogma and
David McMenimen (00:49:27):
stuff like that.
David McMenimen (00:49:29):
And you were talking about people,
David McMenimen (00:49:30):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:49:31):
you can tell whether they have a good program or not.
David McMenimen (00:49:35):
One thing,
David McMenimen (00:49:35):
when I first got sober and I'd see the people,
David McMenimen (00:49:38):
people I were attracted to,
David McMenimen (00:49:39):
they used to say they wear their sobriety like a loose garment.
David McMenimen (00:49:44):
You know, it rolls off them.
David McMenimen (00:49:46):
They're not telling you what to do.
David McMenimen (00:49:47):
They're telling you what they do.
David McMenimen (00:49:49):
And that's what I try to do today.
David McMenimen (00:49:51):
I don't want to,
David McMenimen (00:49:51):
when I start telling people what to do,
David McMenimen (00:49:54):
I'm trying to give away something I don't have.
David McMenimen (00:49:56):
But if I tell them this is what I've done,
David McMenimen (00:49:58):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:49:59):
and you can take it from there,
David McMenimen (00:50:01):
those are the people I'm attracted to in sobriety.
Rachel Casey (00:50:04):
I did really relate to another creator I've had on here, Paulina Pinsky.
Rachel Casey (00:50:09):
She writes Newly Sober on Substack.
David McMenimen (00:50:12):
I mean, Substack, yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:50:13):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:50:14):
And it was a post about Instagram and being a creator versus sharing,
Rachel Casey (00:50:22):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:50:22):
carrying your...
Rachel Casey (00:50:24):
And hers was even about writing.
Rachel Casey (00:50:25):
It wasn't even necessarily sobriety.
Rachel Casey (00:50:27):
And I feel that so strongly because there is a part of...
Rachel Casey (00:50:30):
I don't want to be the website that's like,
Rachel Casey (00:50:33):
download the free copy of How to Get Sober with 10 Days.
Rachel Casey (00:50:38):
And here's your 10 hacks to...
Rachel Casey (00:50:40):
Perfect.
Rachel Casey (00:50:41):
Like, I feel like that is so not me.
Rachel Casey (00:50:44):
And it's also I don't want to take credit because then I do feel like that's
Rachel Casey (00:50:49):
exactly what Bill did write the traditions for is like,
Rachel Casey (00:50:52):
hey,
Rachel Casey (00:50:52):
I don't want to like have this marketing program.
Rachel Casey (00:50:57):
I just want to share the truth.
Rachel Casey (00:50:59):
I want to share that like today.
Rachel Casey (00:51:01):
I have this ulcer on my freaking tongue.
Rachel Casey (00:51:03):
My hair is a mess.
Rachel Casey (00:51:06):
I am just on cloud nine with joy from graduation.
Rachel Casey (00:51:08):
I just want to soak in that feeling.
Rachel Casey (00:51:10):
Equipment's not working.
Rachel Casey (00:51:12):
I mean, I could tell you nine things that make sobriety.
Rachel Casey (00:51:15):
Like I have wrote things, but I just feel so wrong putting it out there.
Rachel Casey (00:51:20):
But that seems to be how to create community.
Rachel Casey (00:51:23):
Right.
Rachel Casey (00:51:24):
you have to do oh yeah a third this 30 day challenge and subscribe get the
Rachel Casey (00:51:31):
subscribe button but i cannot do come to this meeting and i'll give you my 10
Rachel Casey (00:51:37):
secrets to sobriety because there really aren't i could just tell you what we just
Rachel Casey (00:51:42):
talked about yeah and that's not really a secret that is information for anyone who
Rachel Casey (00:51:47):
wants it
David McMenimen (00:51:48):
That's what I heard once, and it's true, and I still use it.
David McMenimen (00:51:53):
Don't drink.
David McMenimen (00:51:54):
Go to a meeting.
David McMenimen (00:51:55):
Wait for further instructions.
Rachel Casey (00:51:58):
I love that.
Rachel Casey (00:51:59):
Wait for further instructions.
Rachel Casey (00:52:01):
We'll let you know when you get there.
David McMenimen (00:52:04):
A couple of summers ago, my wife and I were up in Vermont.
David McMenimen (00:52:07):
We went to the Bill Wilson house in East Dorset, Vermont.
David McMenimen (00:52:11):
I don't get that emotional, but when I walked in there, I had a lump in my throat.
David McMenimen (00:52:16):
And I said, this is the place that saved my life.
David McMenimen (00:52:19):
If you're ever in East Dorset, Vermont, it's it.
Rachel Casey (00:52:23):
Oh, yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:52:23):
I mean, I'll go visit for sure.
Rachel Casey (00:52:25):
I've already planned.
Rachel Casey (00:52:25):
I want to go to the Akron, Ohio.
Rachel Casey (00:52:28):
I want to go.
Rachel Casey (00:52:29):
I love the history of all.
Rachel Casey (00:52:32):
I studied it for a while because it was so it wasn't like this big conspiracy.
Rachel Casey (00:52:37):
Like the AA was not born.
Rachel Casey (00:52:40):
I mean, it was pretty simple.
Rachel Casey (00:52:42):
It was a couple of guys.
Rachel Casey (00:52:44):
Didn't they actually met because and they're in this Oxford group program,
Rachel Casey (00:52:49):
which was very religious,
Rachel Casey (00:52:52):
had opinions,
Rachel Casey (00:52:53):
got shut down for those opinions.
Rachel Casey (00:52:56):
And but they were like, listen, there's still something here.
Rachel Casey (00:52:59):
And that's pretty much it.
Rachel Casey (00:53:01):
Everything else, it was done on budget.
Rachel Casey (00:53:03):
It was a lot of Bill had a lot of struggle of the ego and keeping himself in check
Rachel Casey (00:53:08):
while creating this thing.
Rachel Casey (00:53:12):
One of the biggest years.
Rachel Casey (00:53:14):
of my big book one of my favorite favorite parts like i have so many little quotes
Rachel Casey (00:53:20):
written in the but in the very very beginning i have it re-stickered this is this
Rachel Casey (00:53:30):
book was just written how it used to be in the original edition which i also have
Rachel Casey (00:53:35):
how a hundred men recovered from alcoholism that was it
Rachel Casey (00:53:39):
It was 100 guys that they're like, hey, this is what's worked for us.
Rachel Casey (00:53:44):
Bill was only two years sober when he wrote the book.
Rachel Casey (00:53:49):
This wasn't some like Mel Robbins empowerment speech.
Rachel Casey (00:53:56):
He was a normal guy.
Rachel Casey (00:53:57):
And when I first started reading or hearing even the book read,
Rachel Casey (00:54:02):
it really didn't connect with me.
Rachel Casey (00:54:05):
In the way it does today, because I also have to remember, this was back in 1930s and 40s.
Rachel Casey (00:54:13):
He talks about the Stark market crash of the 1920s.
Rachel Casey (00:54:18):
He was working that.
Rachel Casey (00:54:19):
That's where he thought he had arrived.
Rachel Casey (00:54:22):
And if you can just put that to 100 years of today.
Rachel Casey (00:54:25):
So what I was saying, one exercise that I did was...
Rachel Casey (00:54:30):
was I rewrote some of those step prayers, but in my own words.
Rachel Casey (00:54:36):
So trying to find a way to modernize.
Rachel Casey (00:54:43):
Now,
Rachel Casey (00:54:44):
once you do that and you find a connection,
Rachel Casey (00:54:46):
I actually start to appreciate the way Bill wrote it,
Rachel Casey (00:54:48):
and I now prefer it that way.
Rachel Casey (00:54:50):
But in the beginning...
Rachel Casey (00:54:52):
It's, this book was modern at the time it came out.
Rachel Casey (00:54:57):
And that's kind of hard to explain to Gen Z at times.
Rachel Casey (00:55:02):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:55:03):
And I'm kind of millennial Gen Z,
Rachel Casey (00:55:06):
like,
Rachel Casey (00:55:08):
because my husband's like borderline millennial Gen X.
Rachel Casey (00:55:11):
Because he's seven years older than me.
Rachel Casey (00:55:14):
And we're right borderline.
Rachel Casey (00:55:16):
And it's the younger generation or my generation that
Rachel Casey (00:55:22):
AA can look strict, but it's really not.
Rachel Casey (00:55:27):
Or it can look overly religious, and it's not.
Rachel Casey (00:55:30):
No.
Rachel Casey (00:55:32):
It's how, again, and that's where like the different meetings, different styles.
Rachel Casey (00:55:36):
I think if I went to a book study in my first year of sobriety or before I was
Rachel Casey (00:55:44):
finished working the steps,
Rachel Casey (00:55:45):
I probably been like,
Rachel Casey (00:55:46):
is this really going to keep me sober?
Rachel Casey (00:55:49):
I either needed to probably go at speaker meetings to hear someone's story or
Rachel Casey (00:55:54):
discussion meetings.
Rachel Casey (00:55:55):
And usually a newcomer steps one, two and three.
Rachel Casey (00:55:58):
Those are the meetings I want to go to.
Rachel Casey (00:56:00):
And that,
Rachel Casey (00:56:01):
you know,
Rachel Casey (00:56:01):
the reason they offer the different meetings is because different places in
Rachel Casey (00:56:05):
sobriety.
David McMenimen (00:56:05):
Have you seen the movie The Bill W. Story?
Rachel Casey (00:56:08):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:56:09):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:56:11):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:56:12):
And I've also done, again, another one of my favorites, a Joe and Charlie study is the tapes.
Rachel Casey (00:56:19):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:56:20):
I don't know if you've heard the big book Comes Alive by Joe and Charlie.
Rachel Casey (00:56:23):
No, I haven't.
Rachel Casey (00:56:24):
Oh, my God.
Rachel Casey (00:56:25):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (00:56:26):
I want to run one.
Rachel Casey (00:56:27):
I want to hold that meeting.
Rachel Casey (00:56:28):
So it is one of my absolute favorite meetings.
Rachel Casey (00:56:32):
Once I've also heard Bill speak, I've gone and looked it up.
Rachel Casey (00:56:35):
It's on YouTube.
Rachel Casey (00:56:36):
It's not like super easy to search for,
Rachel Casey (00:56:38):
but actually that's what I need to do is I'm going to put some links on Sober
Rachel Casey (00:56:41):
Banter's page.
Rachel Casey (00:56:43):
And once you hear him talk,
Rachel Casey (00:56:46):
his writing in the book kind of makes more sense because like I said,
Rachel Casey (00:56:50):
this book was not written to be
Rachel Casey (00:56:54):
your 2025 10 secrets to sobriety although i think bill might have marketed it you
Rachel Casey (00:56:59):
know it like and that's how you get people to listen it with what would it be like
Rachel Casey (00:57:04):
instead of the daily reflections it's like 365 days to change your life and it's
Rachel Casey (00:57:12):
365 people you know and we have to again remember we're back this is in the 1920s
Rachel Casey (00:57:17):
and he's just trying to be like hey what are some
Rachel Casey (00:57:22):
He just wanted to find a way.
Rachel Casey (00:57:24):
There wasn't online social media.
Rachel Casey (00:57:26):
There was barely phones.
Rachel Casey (00:57:28):
And he's like, how can we connect?
Rachel Casey (00:57:32):
And at the time, books, magazines, or not magazines, I'm sorry, newspapers.
Rachel Casey (00:57:38):
That was it.
Rachel Casey (00:57:39):
And
David McMenimen (00:57:45):
365 excruciating days to get you sold.
Rachel Casey (00:57:51):
No, seriously.
Rachel Casey (00:57:52):
And it's, I think I respect the simplicity that's behind it too.
Rachel Casey (00:57:59):
And the more that's revealed is Bill is just writing from his heart.
Rachel Casey (00:58:08):
He's just writing what worked for him and
Rachel Casey (00:58:12):
Again, originally, a hundred other guys.
Rachel Casey (00:58:15):
They went to the hospital.
Rachel Casey (00:58:16):
They did the footwork.
Rachel Casey (00:58:18):
And they didn't do it for glory.
Rachel Casey (00:58:22):
They didn't do it for fame or fortune.
Rachel Casey (00:58:24):
He did it for survival, like most of us.
David McMenimen (00:58:28):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:58:29):
when I,
David McMenimen (00:58:29):
when I went to the Bill Wilson house in Vermont,
David McMenimen (00:58:33):
they showed a copy of,
David McMenimen (00:58:35):
it was his last public speech before he died.
David McMenimen (00:58:39):
And,
David McMenimen (00:58:39):
um,
David McMenimen (00:58:40):
he said,
David McMenimen (00:58:41):
he could probably find it online,
David McMenimen (00:58:42):
but he said,
David McMenimen (00:58:43):
um,
David McMenimen (00:58:45):
AA will move forward and the sobriety world will evolve and AA needs to involve,
David McMenimen (00:58:51):
evolve with it,
David McMenimen (00:58:53):
which is,
David McMenimen (00:58:53):
you know,
David McMenimen (00:58:54):
that's why you see all these social platforms today.
David McMenimen (00:58:57):
And, um,
David McMenimen (00:58:58):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (00:58:59):
I'll go on to some of them and some of them,
David McMenimen (00:59:01):
I think they're along for the ride and there are other people that are serious
David McMenimen (00:59:04):
about helping people get sober.
David McMenimen (00:59:07):
And, um,
David McMenimen (00:59:08):
One thing somebody,
David McMenimen (00:59:09):
a guy said to me when we went to the Bill Wilson house,
David McMenimen (00:59:12):
there was a guy,
David McMenimen (00:59:12):
there's actually a hotel there,
David McMenimen (00:59:15):
a small hotel,
David McMenimen (00:59:16):
and this guy was working there.
David McMenimen (00:59:17):
He was sober like 35 years, but he gave us like a behind-the-scenes tour.
David McMenimen (00:59:22):
He showed us the room Bill was born in and the bedroom he slept in and stuff.
David McMenimen (00:59:27):
It was really nice,
David McMenimen (00:59:28):
but he said,
David McMenimen (00:59:28):
Muslims go to Mecca,
David McMenimen (00:59:30):
Catholics go to the Vatican,
David McMenimen (00:59:33):
drunks go to East Dorset for more.
(00:59:35):
What?
David McMenimen (00:59:36):
And it's true.
Rachel Casey (00:59:38):
And you know what's funny is I can tell my guess if Bill knew that his room he was
Rachel Casey (00:59:47):
being bored in was shown he would be mortified.
Rachel Casey (00:59:50):
He'd be like
Rachel Casey (00:59:52):
That does not matter.
Rachel Casey (00:59:54):
So far from recovery, he'd be like, who cares?
Rachel Casey (00:59:58):
And I know he struggled at the end.
Rachel Casey (01:00:00):
And I beyond identify with that because he wanted to,
Rachel Casey (01:00:07):
what a lot of us,
Rachel Casey (01:00:09):
and it makes sense,
Rachel Casey (01:00:11):
like even back in the 80s that you talk about,
Rachel Casey (01:00:13):
you're going to a course,
Rachel Casey (01:00:16):
like an alcohol course,
Rachel Casey (01:00:17):
and you're like 11 out of the 12 were in recovery themselves.
Rachel Casey (01:00:20):
Right.
Rachel Casey (01:00:21):
Because we find,
Rachel Casey (01:00:22):
like,
Rachel Casey (01:00:22):
we have this gift and,
Rachel Casey (01:00:24):
like,
Rachel Casey (01:00:25):
don't...
Rachel Casey (01:00:25):
Isn't the secret of working in life is to,
Rachel Casey (01:00:28):
like,
Rachel Casey (01:00:29):
find something that doesn't really feel like work?
Rachel Casey (01:00:31):
It's to find something you love doing.
Rachel Casey (01:00:35):
And Bill had said, like, he kind of wanted to go be a counselor in addiction.
Rachel Casey (01:00:42):
But there was this conflict because...
Rachel Casey (01:00:46):
He's doing,
Rachel Casey (01:00:46):
he created this group where it's all based on like it's a free knowledge group and
Rachel Casey (01:00:50):
now he wants to go turn around and now charge.
Rachel Casey (01:00:55):
And that was very conflicting.
Rachel Casey (01:00:56):
And he also,
Rachel Casey (01:00:56):
the bigger thing that he wanted to do was find the next level of how to break
Rachel Casey (01:01:04):
alcoholism.
Rachel Casey (01:01:05):
Like how to get to the people that are homeless,
Rachel Casey (01:01:07):
like that can't hear the message in the meeting.
Rachel Casey (01:01:12):
He was driven to try and find alcoholism.
Rachel Casey (01:01:16):
the next layer yeah and there's i don't think there's anything wrong with that no
Rachel Casey (01:01:24):
but people and actually i think we're from my studies again all speculation this is
Rachel Casey (01:01:30):
i'm in school for addiction i'm literally right now i'm taking class life and
Rachel Casey (01:01:35):
development of because it's required for psychology and the different experiments
Rachel Casey (01:01:42):
of
Rachel Casey (01:01:44):
basically nature versus nurture that i just wrote a paper on last night and um i
Rachel Casey (01:01:54):
mean i i get it it's just like you want to figure out how to help others in the
Rachel Casey (01:02:03):
next step and bill was doing that and when he passed it was really his wife
Rachel Casey (01:02:08):
who was more on the Al-Anon side saying, don't change anything.
Rachel Casey (01:02:15):
Keep everything as it is, word for word, piece by piece.
Rachel Casey (01:02:19):
Don't let it evolve.
Rachel Casey (01:02:19):
You need to respect Bill and respect Bob.
Rachel Casey (01:02:22):
And I think Bill, honestly, I think he would be proud to see online meetings.
Rachel Casey (01:02:29):
I think he would be happy to see
Rachel Casey (01:02:34):
the good i i don't know that he would and of course he would probably know there's
Rachel Casey (01:02:38):
people that are going to try and make money off of it i just talked about that with
Rachel Casey (01:02:41):
tim that with good comes the opposite which is like the corruption the treatment
Rachel Casey (01:02:47):
centers that the quote the heads in beds yeah that's not wanting to make people
Rachel Casey (01:02:52):
better yeah but there are ones that do and those ones that do you know it's
Rachel Casey (01:03:03):
Unfortunately, it's today's world.
Rachel Casey (01:03:05):
You got to find a way to like balance that and stay afloat without, you know, it's, it's hard.
Rachel Casey (01:03:13):
And I can totally tell that he really struggled at the,
Rachel Casey (01:03:17):
at the end of how,
Rachel Casey (01:03:19):
how do we balance this?
Rachel Casey (01:03:20):
Because it did become a monster and it did take off.
David McMenimen (01:03:24):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (01:03:26):
And I don't know how you control that.
Rachel Casey (01:03:28):
And he didn't.
Rachel Casey (01:03:28):
And again, this is before social media.
David McMenimen (01:03:30):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (01:03:31):
I know it.
David McMenimen (01:03:32):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (01:03:33):
Could you imagine with a Twitter how it would go?
Rachel Casey (01:03:35):
Oh, my God.
Rachel Casey (01:03:37):
On TikTok, like doing a little big book dance.
David McMenimen (01:03:44):
One thing that impressed me about AA once they started going was this place really runs itself.
David McMenimen (01:03:51):
Nobody's in charge.
David McMenimen (01:03:52):
There are people who would like to be in charge and they act like that.
Rachel Casey (01:03:55):
I was going to say there's the good and the bad of that.
Rachel Casey (01:03:57):
There's the good and the bad of that.
David McMenimen (01:03:59):
but I can get a meeting list book and look for a meeting in a particular town.
David McMenimen (01:04:04):
And if it's at such and such a time,
David McMenimen (01:04:06):
I can go there and there'll be people there,
David McMenimen (01:04:09):
be somebody making coffee and there'll be a speaker.
David McMenimen (01:04:13):
And if it's a discussion meeting,
David McMenimen (01:04:16):
there'll be people that are just raising their hand and talking about what they
David McMenimen (01:04:19):
want to talk about.
David McMenimen (01:04:20):
But, um, it isn't like they get rained out or anything like that, or it's postponed.
David McMenimen (01:04:26):
It's,
Rachel Casey (01:04:27):
No, I walked when it was snowing one year.
Rachel Casey (01:04:31):
If I didn't truly believe that myself, I would feel weird starting sober banter.
Rachel Casey (01:04:36):
And I definitely in the early days talked about how it's the intention, right?
Rachel Casey (01:04:45):
And that's what we learn in life is what's my intent.
Rachel Casey (01:04:50):
And I kind of do a mini prayer,
Rachel Casey (01:04:52):
if you will,
Rachel Casey (01:04:52):
before coming on the podcast every single time it's,
Rachel Casey (01:04:57):
what, what am I doing this for?
Rachel Casey (01:04:59):
Like kind of like my mission statement, like, who am I doing this for?
Rachel Casey (01:05:02):
I'm doing this for,
Rachel Casey (01:05:03):
you know,
Rachel Casey (01:05:04):
the Rachel that heard other little snippets of podcasts before I got sober.
Rachel Casey (01:05:09):
And at the time was like, that sounds like it sucks.
Rachel Casey (01:05:14):
And then I'm like, well, they looked happy.
Rachel Casey (01:05:16):
What was it?
Rachel Casey (01:05:17):
I'm going to go check it out again.
Rachel Casey (01:05:19):
See if they're still happy.
Rachel Casey (01:05:20):
See if they're still sober and they're still sober and they're still happy.
Rachel Casey (01:05:23):
And I'm over here miserable.
Rachel Casey (01:05:24):
And I'm like, gotta figure that out.
Rachel Casey (01:05:26):
And,
Rachel Casey (01:05:29):
eventually I I finally found my ways to the rooms and it saved my life so maybe
Rachel Casey (01:05:36):
that can be and if this isn't it for someone again the benefit is I just had a
Rachel Casey (01:05:42):
really great meeting with
Rachel Casey (01:05:45):
you David and I got friends all over the world that's where I another thing I love
Rachel Casey (01:05:49):
about AA is I'm like I got friends I can go anywhere and I have friends yeah I go
Rachel Casey (01:05:55):
to and the the meetings like I when I traveled the first two years I always made
Rachel Casey (01:06:01):
sure I knew where the closest meeting was so I could like I'd plan be like hey
Rachel Casey (01:06:05):
because I thought I'd get triggered
Rachel Casey (01:06:09):
Which I didn't.
Rachel Casey (01:06:10):
But I also like just seeing how other states do it.
David McMenimen (01:06:13):
Yeah.
David McMenimen (01:06:15):
The format is different in other places.
David McMenimen (01:06:17):
I've been in meetings in other parts of the country, other parts of the world.
David McMenimen (01:06:21):
But the message is the same.
Rachel Casey (01:06:23):
It's all the same.
Rachel Casey (01:06:24):
And it's fun.
Rachel Casey (01:06:25):
And it's like, man.
Rachel Casey (01:06:27):
I have a host of friends all over and there's literally 24 hour meetings.
Rachel Casey (01:06:33):
So I could wake up in the middle of the night and I bet Bill would be amazed by that.
Rachel Casey (01:06:38):
I bet he would be so proud of that.
Rachel Casey (01:06:40):
I don't think he would be like, they're not doing it right.
Rachel Casey (01:06:44):
Or they're not reading the traditions or the book or again, even touring his house.
Rachel Casey (01:06:48):
He'd be like, what?
Rachel Casey (01:06:49):
I'm just a normal guy.
Rachel Casey (01:06:52):
I was a stockbroker who had alcoholism.
Rachel Casey (01:06:56):
And we go to the loony bin.
Rachel Casey (01:06:59):
And he found the secret with Dr. Bob.
Rachel Casey (01:07:04):
And I think it's just really, the history makes it so beautiful to me.
Rachel Casey (01:07:12):
And I love that.
Rachel Casey (01:07:13):
I really love that.
Rachel Casey (01:07:14):
And I want to thank you so much for your time.
Rachel Casey (01:07:16):
Thank you for sharing this story.
Rachel Casey (01:07:19):
Thank you so much.
Rachel Casey (01:07:20):
I think this is going to help.
Rachel Casey (01:07:23):
You had a lot of things that were a lot of really, really relatable and really good sobriety.
Rachel Casey (01:07:28):
And again,
Rachel Casey (01:07:29):
the compliment,
Rachel Casey (01:07:30):
I can tell you run a good program and happy early belly button birthday and early
Rachel Casey (01:07:36):
actual sobriety birthday and happy belated anniversary.
Rachel Casey (01:07:40):
So just full of celebration.
Rachel Casey (01:07:42):
Thank you for sharing that on Sober Banter.
David McMenimen (01:07:44):
Thanks, Rachel.
David McMenimen (01:07:46):
If you ever get up to Boston, contact me.
David McMenimen (01:07:48):
We can meet up somewhere.
David McMenimen (01:07:50):
I'd love to do that.
Rachel Casey (01:07:52):
I would, I will, that would be another.
Rachel Casey (01:07:56):
Absolutely.
Rachel Casey (01:07:57):
I want to go so many different places to see so many different people.
Rachel Casey (01:08:00):
I definitely,
Rachel Casey (01:08:01):
I would love to organize a trip like to see the Bill Wilson house or do something
Rachel Casey (01:08:04):
in Akron even.
Rachel Casey (01:08:05):
Yeah.
Rachel Casey (01:08:06):
It's, I want to go so badly to those places.
Rachel Casey (01:08:10):
So yeah, I will definitely contact you.
Rachel Casey (01:08:13):
Thank you for listening to Sober Banter.
Rachel Casey (01:08:14):
Have a good day.
